Art Bell’s show, “Coast to Coast AM,” features a conversation with Dr. William Pierce, the author of “The Turner Diaries,” who discusses his perspective on the Vietnam War and the antiwar and civil rights movements of the 1960s. Dr. Pierce shares his concerns about the contradictions he observed, particularly the government’s handling of the war and its tolerance of antiwar protests, which he found baffling. He reflects on the implications of these movements for the country’s future and criticizes the government’s indecisive approach to the Vietnam conflict. Art and Dr. Pierce agree that if the U.S. was to engage in war, it should have done so decisively, even if it meant using atomic weapons, rather than getting involved in a conflict without a clear plan for victory. They discuss the disillusionment with the war’s management at the highest levels and how it affected their views on U.S. involvement.
Dr. Pierce discusses his concern about the simultaneous civil rights movement, which he believed challenged the nation’s values, standards, and lifestyle. He reflects on the implications of this movement for the future, viewing it as a drastic change from past practices. This led him to delve deeper into history, read extensively, and think critically about the significance of these changes. He began writing serious nonfiction, but a friend advised him to present his ideas in the form of fiction to reach a broader audience. This suggestion led to the creation of “The Turner Diaries,” which he wrote over three years, publishing it serially in a newspaper. The novel, while not meant to be a literal prediction, was intended to reflect the general trends he observed, including the potential for serious terrorism in the United States, which he saw as prophetic given events like the Oklahoma City bombing and the World Trade Center attack. Pierce also touches on his views of the civil rights movement, perceiving it as leading to a loss of community and identity within American society, a sentiment that he believes was on target. He argues that a healthy society requires a certain degree of homogeneity and shared sense of history.
Dr. Pierce continues by discussing the necessity of homogeneity for a society to maintain a shared history, values, and sense of responsibility. He believes that without this homogeneity, society becomes atomized, leading to excessive individualism and alienation. Pierce argues that the values within a society are shaped by its history and genes, and he suggests that the American society, predominantly of European descent, had a common background that fostered a sense of unity. He also touches on the concept of conflict being a natural part of world history, with stronger races imposing their values on others.
Art brings up Reverend Louis Farrakhan, noting that despite their differences, Farrakhan and Pierce share some similar views on racial separation. Pierce admits that while they would disagree on many issues, he respects Farrakhan for advocating for his people. The conversation then shifts to Pierce’s novel, “The Turner Diaries,” which depicts a race war in the 1990s. Pierce sees the book as prophetic and suggests that a race war is already happening in some form.
Dr. Pierce describes the current racial tensions in the United States as a low-level conflict, particularly highlighting what he perceives as a growing war between the black underclass and the white majority. He does not foresee an organized race war in the 1990s but believes that racial conflict will continue to intensify. The discussion shifts to genetics, where Pierce argues that excessive racial mixing could weaken a population by moving beyond an optimal level of genetic variability, potentially threatening its survival.
The conversation then turns to the situation with the Freemen in Montana, a group resisting federal authority. Pierce, while acknowledging that their ideas are unconventional and possibly misguided, sympathizes with their desire to withdraw from what they see as an overly intrusive government. He believes that while their creation of a separate monetary system and the resulting conflicts with the federal government were impractical, their fundamental wish to be left alone is understandable. Pierce emphasizes the need for some rule of law to maintain civilization but also expresses concern over government overreach.
Dr. Pierce discusses the predicament of the Freemen in Montana, acknowledging that if he were in their situation, facing the prospect of many years in prison, he might consider fighting it out rather than surrendering. However, he also suggests that if the government offered a deal where they could make restitution without going to jail, he might take that opportunity to avoid a lifetime in prison and proceed more cautiously in the future.
The conversation then shifts to the re-publication of “The Turner Diaries” by a Jewish publisher, Mr. Stewart, who Pierce describes as a renegade in the publishing industry, known for taking on controversial books. Stewart decided to publish the book precisely because of the strong opposition from his team, believing that the controversy surrounding it indicated that it had something important to say.
When asked if he wants the future depicted in “The Turner Diaries” to come true, Pierce expresses a hope that society might wake up and choose a more prudent course before descending into the kind of warfare he imagined. However, he is pessimistic, citing history as evidence that humanity often takes the bloody path. Pierce believes that a civil war with a significant racial component is likely, although he personally prefers a peaceful resolution. He clarifies that “The Turner Diaries” is not a book of advocacy but rather a prediction of what he believes the future may hold, even though he embraces many of the concepts presented in the book.
Dr. Pierce clarifies that while “The Turner Diaries” includes violent and extreme scenarios involving nuclear weapons and other destructive acts, these are not ideas he looks forward to or relishes. He explains that the plot was designed to be engaging and believable, intended to keep readers interested in the story. When asked about Timothy McVeigh, who was accused of the Oklahoma City bombing and reportedly embraced Pierce’s book, Pierce denies that his book inspired the bombing. He suggests that McVeigh’s actions were likely motivated by the Waco massacre, rather than by “The Turner Diaries.” However, he acknowledges that the method used by McVeigh—a truck bomb—is similar to a tactic described in his book, but he argues that this is simply a common method used in various terrorist attacks, such as the bombing of the Marine barracks in Lebanon and the World Trade Center.
Art Bell presses Pierce on the connection between McVeigh’s actions and the book, noting that McVeigh was a known admirer of Pierce’s work and that the similarities between the bombing and the events in the book are striking. Pierce responds by comparing the situation to someone committing a crime after reading a novel with a similar act, implying that the connection is not as direct as it might seem. He recalls watching the news coverage of the Oklahoma City bombing and being struck by reports of other unexploded bombs being found in the building, which he found particularly intriguing.
Dr. Pierce reflects on the initial confusion and conspiracy theories surrounding the Oklahoma City bombing, particularly regarding reports of unexploded bombs found in the building. He dismisses the notion that the government orchestrated the bombing but remains puzzled by the lack of follow-up on the unexploded bombs. As the investigation progressed, Pierce came to understand that a truck bomb, similar to those used in other major attacks like the World Trade Center bombing, was responsible. He continues to reject the idea that “The Turner Diaries” inspired the bombing, asserting that the true motivation was likely revenge for the Waco massacre.
When asked about the potential for more attacks like Oklahoma City, Pierce predicts an increase in terrorism, citing recent incidents like the World Trade Center bombing and the Unabomber’s actions as just the beginning of a larger trend. He discusses the Unabomber’s manifesto, noting that while he disagrees with much of Ted Kaczynski’s ideology, particularly his left-wing views, he sympathizes with the Unabomber’s concerns about the negative effects of industrialization and technology on society. However, Pierce firmly opposes Kaczynski’s method of sending mail bombs, condemning the violence.
Dr. Pierce reflects on the Unabomber’s actions, suggesting that Ted Kaczynski might have acted out of frustration rather than following a well-thought-out plan. He questions the reasoning behind Kaczynski’s choice of targets and speculates that Kaczynski’s justification for his violent actions might have been a rationalization after the fact. Pierce denies that the bombing of the FBI building in his book, “The Turner Diaries,” was meant to send a message similar to Kaczynski’s. Instead, the bombing in the book was specifically aimed at destroying a computerized identity card system that the government was developing to track citizens.
When asked about his book being embraced as a “bible” by the extreme right, Pierce expresses ambivalence, neither pleased nor upset by the claim. He doubts that the diverse groups within the extreme right would universally accept his book as their guiding text. Pierce describes himself as a “nature worshiper,” believing in a creator who is imminent in nature rather than a traditional anthropomorphic God. He does not believe in an afterlife, heaven, or hell, and he values the achievements and history of his own people—those of European ancestry—more than those of other racial groups.
The conversation shifts to the idea of a national identity card system, which Pierce opposes, believing it to be a reaction by the government to maintain control as it becomes more intrusive and oppressive. He argues that such measures would only increase hostility toward the government.
Dr. Pierce discusses the escalating tension and hostility in society, expressing concern that the government’s increasingly intrusive measures, like a potential national identity card system, will only exacerbate the problem. He predicts that within a decade, this escalation could lead to more violence and terrorism.
Art Bell brings up the idea of a final resolution, asking whether Pierce believes that a race war or some other means might resolve the growing hatred in society. Pierce argues that the root causes of the conflict must be addressed, specifically the forced integration of races, which he believes is a primary source of hostility. He suggests that allowing people to separate, as advocated by figures like Louis Farrakhan, might reduce some of the tension.
The conversation shifts to a controversial chapter in Pierce’s book, “The Turner Diaries,” called “The Day of the Rope,” where race traitors, primarily white people who supported racial integration, are hanged in a violent campaign to pacify southern California. Pierce acknowledges that this scene is disturbing but emphasizes that it was part of a larger narrative in the book, intended to show the consequences of what he perceives as racial betrayal.
When asked what he would say to a happily married interracial couple, Pierce admits he has little to say to them personally but reiterates his belief that miscegenation is unhealthy for society. He suggests that as miscegenation has increased, so has racial conflict, though he stops short of directly attributing the conflict to interracial relationships. Pierce acknowledges that in the past, when America had more clearly separated white and black societies, there was less racial conflict, but this also coincided with significant disparities in rights between races, which he does not deny.
Dr. Pierce acknowledges that the separate and unequal societies in America’s past were not healthy, particularly due to the legacy of slavery. He believes the current racial issues stem from the end of slavery and the integration of freed slaves into the general population. Pierce suggests that ideally, there should be separate societies for different races, though he doubts they would be equal. He argues that different people need different forms of government and society that reflect their nature.
When asked how he envisions a separate white and black nation, Pierce admits he hasn’t thoroughly worked out the specifics and prefers not to make snap judgments on such hypothetical scenarios. He reiterates that he doesn’t believe in imposing one group’s ideas on another, whether it be in terms of government or religion.
Pierce acknowledges that there would be conflict if people of different races did not want to be separated, which he sees as unfortunate but inevitable given the current situation. The conversation then turns to Pierce’s admiration for Adolf Hitler, which he attributes to Hitler’s ability to restore Germany’s economic, political, and moral health after World War I. Pierce claims that Hitler managed to unite the German people and achieve what he considers miraculous results.
However, when the topic shifts to the darker aspects of Hitler’s regime, particularly the “Final Solution,” Pierce justifies Hitler’s actions by saying that Hitler sought to free German society from what he saw as a disproportionately strong Jewish influence in various sectors like the media, law, and academia. Pierce does not directly address the atrocities of the Holocaust but focuses instead on the rationale behind Hitler’s policies.
Dr. Pierce discusses the concept of racial solidarity and the efforts of the Jewish community in Germany to strengthen their position, which he views through the lens of natural selection. However, he distinguishes between actions taken by his own people to strengthen their position and those taken by others that he believes weaken his people. He describes the Nazi regime’s systematic exclusion of Jews from various sectors of German society, leading many Jews to emigrate before World War II.
Pierce downplays the Holocaust, questioning the extent of the atrocities and the use of gas chambers, particularly at Dachau, which he claims has been discredited. He suggests that while there was persecution, it was more akin to the internment of Japanese Americans during World War II in the U.S. rather than genocide. Pierce concedes that the Holocaust was “partially true” but insists that the details must be scrutinized individually.
As the conversation nears its end, Pierce, feeling hoarse, suggests allowing callers to ask questions and thanks Art Bell for the opportunity to be on the program.
After Dr. Pierce concluded his segment, the show transitioned to a discussion with Andrew Gause, a currency historian and expert on the U.S. monetary system. Gause began by addressing the confusing state of the economy, where the stock market was hitting new highs while gold prices were also rising, a situation that typically indicates a rush to safety in uncertain times.
Gause explained that this unusual situation was due to an influx of fresh money into the market, resulting from actions taken by Treasury Secretary Robert Rubin. Rubin had converted civil service trust funds into instant money, which Gause argued was legal but breached his fiduciary responsibility as a trustee of those funds. This action effectively looted the trust fund by replacing it with IOUs from a potentially defaulting nation, putting Rubin in a difficult position.
The conversation then turned to the nature of the national debt, with Gause explaining that most of the money in the nation is tied up in long-term treasury obligations, not cash. He clarified the difference between the deficit and the debt and highlighted that much of the national debt is owed to various trust funds. Gause discussed the idea that the national debt might seem like a mirage because it is mostly made up of IOUs, but he emphasized that this is not a solution to the problem. He also touched on the notion of minting a large coin to cancel the debt, dismissing it as a silly idea, though he suggested that issuing U.S. notes to replace Federal Reserve notes could be a more prudent plan.
Andrew Gause continues the discussion on the state of the U.S. economy, particularly focusing on the implications of electronic money and the national debt. He explains that while the paper money supply is significant, the electronic money supply is much larger, which could lead to a potential financial disaster if a significant amount of money were to change hands electronically overnight, as hinted by John Major in England.
Gause expresses concern about the American public’s lack of awareness and preparedness for a financial crisis, noting that many people have their money tied up in IOUs or mutual funds, chasing paper profits. He suggests that an increase in the national debt ceiling could trigger a crisis, but the government has managed to avoid panic through various maneuvers.
The conversation touches on the inflationary nature of raising the debt ceiling and printing more bonds, which increases the money supply and decreases the dollar’s value. Gause predicts that the manipulation of the financial system could become unsustainable within the next 6 to 12 months, particularly with the staggering amount of debt being brought to market. He warns that the federal government may either crowd out private borrowers or create more money to pay the debt, leading to a temporary economic euphoria. However, he also hints at the political implications, suggesting that a booming economy could influence the upcoming election.
Andrew Gause continues his discussion on the financial system, focusing on the relationship between the Federal Reserve and the U.S. government. He highlights the Fed’s role in enabling government spending by controlling the money supply and issuing bonds, which allows Congress to spend beyond its means without immediate consequences. Gause argues that if Congress were forced to manage the money supply directly, it would lead to immediate inflation and political backlash, which is why the current system allows them to defer the consequences to future generations.
Gause and Art Bell discuss the potential consequences of a debt ceiling hike, with Gause warning that the ongoing practice will eventually lead to a predictable economic crash. They speculate about what would happen if the U.S. were to default on its debt, an unthinkable scenario that could have catastrophic consequences. However, they agree that the government is likely to do whatever it takes to avoid default, even if that means continuing the unsustainable practices that could lead to a future crash.
Gause suggests that the current system is unsustainable and will eventually collapse, but he doubts that the government will allow it to happen in the near term. Instead, they will likely take measures to avoid default and keep the system running, even if it means postponing the inevitable crash.
Andrew Gause delves into the potential consequences if the U.S. were to default on its debt, particularly if the president rejected an unclean debt ceiling hike. He warns that such a default would lead to a loss of U.S. sovereignty, as the federal government would likely be brought before the International Court in The Hague and foreclosed upon, similar to how other debtor nations have been handled. The taxing authority would pass from Congress to the institution bailing out the U.S., possibly the International Monetary Fund or the World Bank, leading to a shift towards a one-world government scenario.
Gause explains that in this situation, U.S. currency might be replaced with a world currency, and all tax revenues would be funneled through international organizations. This would represent a significant step towards global consolidation, with the U.S. losing its monetary autonomy. The scenario includes the potential for UN sanctions against the U.S., a situation that Gause finds almost unimaginable but possible under these circumstances.
He predicts that if a default were imminent, the financial markets would react violently, with mutual funds collapsing, bond values plummeting, and gold prices skyrocketing. The chaos would likely unfold rapidly, with overnight developments in international markets leading to widespread financial turmoil by the time Americans woke up the next morning.
Andrew Gause continues to explain the complexities of the financial system, particularly focusing on the derivatives market and its implications. He explains that derivatives are financial instruments that derive their value from the right to trade an item rather than from the item itself. This market allows for speculation on various assets like bonds, stocks, and commodities, including gold, without requiring physical possession of the underlying asset.
Gause discusses how the Federal Reserve uses derivatives to manipulate markets, including the gold market, to prevent sharp rises in prices that could trigger panic. By selling derivatives, the Fed can stabilize prices temporarily, giving them time to adjust their positions and prevent sudden market disruptions.
Gause likens the Federal Reserve’s actions to a juggler trying to keep multiple objects in the air, warning that eventually, the system might fail when too many factors come into play. He advises that the best way for the average person to protect themselves is to gradually move a portion of their wealth into tangible assets, such as gold and silver coins, to hedge against the declining value of money and the potential collapse of the financial system.
Andrew Gause continues his discussion on financial strategies, emphasizing the importance of moving wealth into tangible assets like gold and silver coins as a hedge against inflation and potential financial chaos. He notes that during times of severe inflation, such as from 1977 to 1980, the value of gold coins skyrocketed, making them a safe investment compared to paper money, which loses value.
Gause also touches on the upcoming introduction of new $100 bills, which are being printed to combat counterfeiting, particularly the so-called “super notes” produced in the Bekaa Valley of Lebanon with plates originally provided to Iran by the U.S. government during the Shah’s regime. He mentions that counterfeit $100 bills have become so prevalent in Europe that some places are refusing to accept them.
Gause expresses concern about the potential inflationary effects of introducing new $100 bills without immediately withdrawing the old ones from circulation. He suggests that this could lead to a significant devaluation of the dollar, as an increased supply of currency typically lowers its value.
Andrew Gause discusses the rationale behind issuing new $100 bills, questioning whether the decision to not immediately demonetize the old ones effectively legalizes counterfeiting operations. This leads to further speculation on the potential economic impacts of such a move, particularly in terms of inflation.
The discussion transitions to a broader conversation about the future economy, with a faxed question suggesting that weapons, drugs, information, and electronics might become the true currency if the American dollar collapses. Gause humorously contrasts this dystopian vision with the possibility of future generations laughing at how little $100 used to be worth.
When asked about his preferred candidate for president, Gause names Richard Lugar, citing Lugar’s advocacy for an honest system of taxation focused on consumption rather than production. He criticizes the current tax system, which he believes discourages productivity and unfairly taxes wage earners. Gause also comments on other candidates, acknowledging Pat Buchanan’s protectionist stance but warning that it could lead to economic isolation. He expresses skepticism about Steve Forbes’ flat tax proposal, arguing that it does not address the fundamental issue of taxing production rather than consumption.
Gause advocates for a tax system based on consumption, which he believes would encourage production and savings while reducing excessive consumption. He argues that the U.S. cannot sustain its role as the world’s consumer and needs to shift towards greater self-reliance and production.
Andrew Gause addresses a caller’s question about investing in gold through the commodity market and options, advising caution due to the high risks involved. He suggests that for the average investor, holding physical gold is a safer option, as it avoids the potential losses associated with margin calls and the speculative nature of derivatives.
Another caller brings up the idea of purchasing gold or silver through an IRA, specifically using American Eagles, which Gause supports as a viable option for those who can only invest through their retirement accounts.
A subsequent question touches on the parallels between the current economic situation and the lead-up to the 1929 stock market crash, noting that inflation often precedes a collapse. Gause agrees, drawing comparisons between the “roaring” 1920s, fueled by money from World War I, and the present-day economy. He predicts that within the next 12 months, there could be significant shifts in monetary values, with those holding money being the most vulnerable.
A biblical perspective is introduced by another caller, who speculates that a one-world currency might be linked to the “mark of the beast” as prophesied in the Bible. Gause acknowledges the possibility of advancing technology leading to a cashless society but cautions against waiting too long to take protective financial measures.
Finally, Gause addresses concerns about owning Krugerrands or Maple Leafs, explaining that the primary risks are related to IRS reporting requirements and the potential for the government to outlaw private ownership of gold bullion under the Trading with the Enemy Act.
Andrew Gause discusses several topics related to gold investments and economic trends. He advises a caller to trade their Krugerrands for old circulated $20 gold pieces or low-grade uncirculated ones, as these coins offer better protection against potential government actions like the outlawing of private gold ownership under laws such as the Trading with the Enemy Act.
Gause also touches on signs of potential foreclosure by the government, including efforts by the Bureau of Land Management to perfect titles to federal lands. He introduces his theory of “The Quickening,” observing that events, particularly in monetary matters, seem to be accelerating at an ever-increasing pace, which could signal a significant economic shift.
A caller inquires about the legality of a nonprofit organization investing in gold and silver, to which Gause responds that he believes it might not be permissible under IRS regulations but advises consulting a tax professional for definitive advice.
Gause expresses skepticism about municipal bonds, arguing that they are tied to the broader bond market and could suffer if Treasury bond yields fall. He advises against tying up money in long-term municipal bonds, given the low returns relative to inflation.
For those holding large amounts of cash, Gause warns that the ongoing currency changeover might be a government attempt to flush out the underground economy. He suggests that instead of holding cash, people should invest in tangible assets like food, gold, silver coins, art, or even vintage automobiles, as these are likely to retain value better than cash.
Finally, Gause briefly discusses the concept of a “fair tax,” which is a consumption-based tax system. He supports this idea, as it would tax spending rather than production, allowing people to keep more of their earnings while taxing consumption to fund government operations.
Andrew Gause continues his discussion by addressing a listener’s question about whether they should continue doubling their mortgage payments or invest in gold instead. Gause strongly advises against doubling mortgage payments, especially on an adjustable-rate mortgage with a cap under 10%. He suggests that it’s better to invest the extra money in tangible assets like gold or silver, as the equity in a house is not as secure or liquid, especially if interest rates rise significantly.
The conversation then shifts to the potential consequences if the U.S. were to default on its debt and the international authorities attempted to enforce sanctions. Gause expresses doubt that the U.S. military would protect the country from such sanctions, as he believes the military is increasingly subject to international law. He mentions the role of militias as a potential last line of defense, though he acknowledges the risks posed by extremist elements within militias and the federal agencies like the FBI and ATF.
Gause is also given an opportunity to promote his informational booklets, which provide insights into the economic situation and advice on investing in gold and silver. He emphasizes the importance of educating oneself and taking action to protect one’s assets from potential economic instability.
Andrew Gause discusses the dire consequences that would follow if the U.S. government were to default on its debt. He explains that such a default would immediately bankrupt the Social Security trust fund, as it holds significant amounts of Treasury bonds. This collapse would extend to all federal trust funds, totaling around $3 trillion in bonds, leading to a catastrophic contraction of the money supply and triggering a severe depression. Gause emphasizes that a U.S. default would be unprecedented and would wreak havoc on the financial system.
The conversation shifts to the potential political fallout from a debt ceiling standoff. Gause speculates on what might happen if the President vetoed a debt ceiling increase due to unacceptable conditions attached by Congress. He suggests that the Treasury Secretary might take extraordinary measures, such as reallocating trust fund money to pay off debts, even if it meant facing legal consequences. Gause believes that the consequences of a default would be far worse than any personal repercussions for the Treasury Secretary.
Listeners continue to call in with questions, including one about the rising futures prices for gold and silver. Gause confirms that these rising prices are a strong indicator of looming economic troubles, as those who set futures prices typically have a good understanding of market conditions. The increasing cost of gold and silver futures suggests that those in the know are preparing for significant economic challenges ahead.
Andrew Gause discusses the importance of shifting wealth into tangible assets, advising against holding assets that represent debt. He emphasizes the value of having physical possession of equity, such as food, gold, and silver, and suggests that everyone should consider producing their own food, such as by growing a garden, as a means of creating real wealth. Gause also touches on the rumor that Treasury Secretary Robert Rubin might consider selling the U.S. gold reserves, clarifying that the gold is pledged against the Federal Reserve note issue and technically does not belong to the United States but to the privately owned Federal Reserve.
Gause confirms that the largest store of gold in the world is held in the Federal Reserve Bank of New York, and he reiterates the significance of understanding the role of the Federal Reserve in controlling global wealth. He notes that the U.S. strategic gold reserve is small compared to the Federal Reserve’s holdings and that any notion of the U.S. government directly accessing this gold is unrealistic.
A caller asks about the difference between credit unions and commercial banks, to which Gause explains that credit unions do not create money; they operate by taking deposits and loaning them out, making them a form of “honest banking.” However, he warns that credit unions might struggle to meet withdrawal demands if they have long-term loans tied up in mortgages.
Gause dismisses the likelihood of eliminating the mortgage interest rate deduction, citing strong lobbying efforts and public resistance to such a change.
Andrew Gause concludes the discussion by emphasizing the importance of moving toward a consumption-based tax system, which he believes would allow people to keep all the money they earn and only pay taxes based on their spending. He advocates for Richard Lugar, the only candidate promoting this idea, though he acknowledges that Lugar is unlikely to become the next president.
Gause predicts that Bill Clinton will likely be re-elected due to a booming economy orchestrated by the Federal Reserve, with low unemployment, moderate inflation, and low interest rates leading up to the election. However, he foresees a repeat of the late 1970s scenario, with a slow and steady inflationary cycle that will result in double-digit interest rates and inflation by the end of Clinton’s second term, along with skyrocketing commodity prices.
As the show wraps up, Gause thanks the listeners and provides the number for his informational booklets once again, urging patience as they handle the high volume of requests. Art Bell clarifies that Gause has no connection to the show’s sponsors and was brought on purely to discuss economic issues without any commercial agenda.