Art begins the show by welcoming listeners from various regions and mentions the night’s guest, Jim Dilettoso, who has been investigating the Phoenix sightings. Jim has been featured on CNN, explaining and showing computer projections of what he believes the sightings were. Art plans to discuss the Phoenix sightings in-depth with Jim, who has a diverse background, including work with the Moody Blues, NASA, the armed forces, and Paramount Pictures.
Jim shares that his career in advanced technology, sound, and lighting production in the concert business naturally transitioned into work with NASA and the armed forces. He explains how these experiences have prepared him for his current role at Village Labs Inc. in Tempe, Arizona. Art and Jim delve into the details of the Phoenix sightings, with Jim providing insights into the events and their significance.
Art also mentions upcoming segments with other guests and his plans to attend a talk show host conference in Los Angeles. He assures listeners of an unusual and intriguing program ahead, promising to explore the Phoenix sightings and Jim Dilettoso’s unique insights further.
Jim begins by detailing the sequence of sightings on March 13th, starting at 8:16 PM. Bright orbs, described as ranging from the size of hot air balloons to aircraft lights, moved south through Phoenix in a V formation. This event lasted until 8:25 PM, with witnesses describing the object as close enough to touch and moving like a slow freight train. The structure was seen as translucent, blocking out stars but still visible, and appeared as if viewed through water.
Reports indicated the lights might separate and rejoin, being seen statewide, including Tucson, before resting over the Estrella Mountains. Initial speculation included the possibility of flares, but tests showed no evidence supporting this. The National Guard denied launching flares, attributing the confusion to a helicopter pilot’s mistaken report. Jim emphasized thorough investigations into various light sources, ruling out flares and other conventional explanations.
Art mentions the importance of credible sources, urging listeners to provide firsthand accounts or evidence to validate claims. Jim confirms open communication with military authorities due to his professional background, ensuring a transparent investigation into the sightings.
Jim explains that from the first day, he couldn’t find anyone in the military who confirmed sending up flares at night in that area. The military denied using the area for 20 years, which contrasted with claims from some UFO researchers who insisted it was flares. Further investigation with a covert operations expert revealed that only one video, shown by Richard Monsour, depicted flares. Jim emphasizes that the lights did not behave like flares and that the issue had become a distraction from the real investigation.
Art and Jim discuss the V formation of lights, which appeared during the 8:00 PM sightings. This formation persisted except when pairs of large orbs were seen. The media’s classification of the event as a single 106-minute incident was considered a fair simplification for public understanding. However, Jim and his team view it as four separate incidents.
The conversation shifts to the extensive media coverage the Phoenix sightings received months after the event. Jim notes the sudden resurgence of interest, potentially triggered by a USA Today story. Art questions how something from March 13th could suddenly dominate national media in June, suggesting there might be underlying agendas or coincidences.
Jim recounts his surprise at the rapid deployment of national media coverage following the USA Today story. Initially, it was difficult for the reporter, Richard, to sell the story to his editor, but once it was published, it gained immediate national attention. Jim mentions the local media’s familiarity with UFO stories, which helped them quickly produce polished segments. Despite this, the sudden, widespread national interest was unexpected.
Jim draws parallels with his involvement in the Billy Meier case, where the UFO community became polarized. He recalls coordinating scientific investigations that found no evidence of a hoax, yet the case faced vicious attacks from skeptics. He notes that similar patterns might emerge with the Phoenix sightings, where the national media’s attention could lead to subsequent backlash and controversy.
Art and Jim discuss the authenticity of Billy Meier’s original materials, which Jim believes were genuine. He explains that later evidence became convoluted as a cult grew around Meier. Despite advancements in technology, Jim asserts that the original evidence remains credible, using sophisticated software to analyze and validate the authenticity of UFO images. He suggests that the Phoenix lights might face a similar trajectory, involving both critical examination and potential controversy.
Jim elaborates on the sophisticated testing and triangulation they performed, using advanced equipment and supercomputers to determine the exact positions of the lights within a three-foot accuracy. Despite extensive searches, no evidence of flares or military activity was found in the area. Eyewitnesses in rural southern Phoenix reported seeing the objects directly overhead, unattached to any aircraft or the mountain itself.
When asked about the nature of the lights, Jim refrains from labeling them as a mothership or airplane, suggesting they resemble giant balls of light similar to historical sightings described by others. About a quarter of the 200 reports described seeing a solid structure beyond just lights. Using Nielsen numbers for perspective, Jim estimates that around 10,000 people might have witnessed the event.
The object was estimated to be 1,500 to 2,000 yards wide when over the Estrella Mountains, with some descriptions suggesting it covered a square mile. The prolonged duration of the sighting over a major metropolitan area raises questions about why it didn’t receive significant media attention initially but became a major story months later. Art and Jim discuss potential agendas behind this sudden surge in coverage.
Jim explains the process of triangulating the lights using still frames from videos and topographical maps, resulting in a 3D model that revealed a V-shaped formation of lights. This rigorous scientific approach provided a clear, credible depiction of the phenomenon.
Art highlights the extensive media coverage of the Phoenix lights, noting how Jim has been prominently featured on CNN. He acknowledges the sudden national attention to the sightings and introduces Richard, a state field investigator for MUFON in Arizona. Richard provides his credentials, emphasizing his background in electronic design and imaging, and his previous work for Sony and other publications.
Richard mentions his past efforts to rectify what he saw as injustices towards Jim from MUFON’s Texas headquarters, particularly regarding the Billy Meier case. He expresses his respect for Jim’s work, having replicated some of Jim’s results with low-cost software. Richard notes that his current business involves computer imaging.
Art asks Richard if he has any specific disagreements with Jim’s analysis of the Phoenix lights. Richard challenges Jim’s statement that people in South Phoenix saw the lights over the Estrella Mountains. He argues that the Estrellas are not visible from South Phoenix, even from higher altitudes. Richard also questions the authenticity of footage shown on CNN, suggesting it might be from a different location.
Richard emphasizes that 95% of the witnesses never saw the footage shown on TV because they were blocked by South Mountain and the Estrellas. He explains that only high-altitude viewpoints allowed visibility. Richard clarifies that the 10:00 PM footage widely shown on networks and CNN was shot from various locations and altitudes, leading to different perspectives.
Jim responds by stating he drove around the areas indicated by topographical maps, verifying eyewitness accounts firsthand. He insists the lights were seen directly overhead, not attached to any mountains. Richard challenges this, mentioning restricted areas and repeated appearances of lights at the same locations, often accompanied by helicopter traffic. He accuses Jim of withholding reports, a claim Jim denies.
The discussion shifts to the flare theory. Richard insists the 10:00 PM footage shows flares, citing an AP press release from the Arizona National Guard. However, Jim counters that official military press releases do not confirm this. Art requests concrete evidence, such as testimony from a pilot who deployed flares. Richard describes a method involving seven videos shot at 10:00 PM, demonstrating that the lights’ movement matches the deployment and burn time of Mark 45 flares.
Richard continues to argue that the footage and the lights seen at 10:00 PM were indeed flares, based on his analysis and the movement patterns observed in multiple videos. He points out that the lights descend and move in a manner consistent with flares, matching the burn time and descent rate of Mark 45 flares. However, Jim disagrees, stating that their optical characteristics and behavior do not match those of flares according to both manufacturers and computer analyses.
Jim also mentions he has thoroughly investigated the locations, speaking directly with residents who saw the lights overhead, not attached to any mountains. The debate intensifies as Richard emphasizes that the flares have been consistently seen over months, while Jim insists on the empirical data from their triangulation and 3D modeling.
Art highlights the significance of the national coverage, questioning why no one has come forward to admit to launching flares if that were the case. Both Jim and Richard agree that the lack of an official statement or admission from someone responsible adds to the mystery. Richard notes a local newscast that reiterated the flares explanation from the Army National Guard, but Jim remains skeptical.
Art also introduces the idea that the lights might be related to drug enforcement or border control exercises, though no official confirmation has been provided. The conversation ends with a question about the object’s location at 8:22 PM, with Jim confirming it was over central Phoenix, moving overhead, close enough that witnesses felt they could throw a ball at it.
Richard and Jim continue to debate the authenticity of the footage and the nature of the lights. Richard reiterates that the flares have been consistently observed for months, not just on the night in question, and insists that his analysis confirms the lights’ movements as consistent with flare deployment. Jim maintains that their optical characteristics and behavior are not consistent with flares.
Richard mentions conducting tests with similar cameras and locations to compare day and night footage, claiming that the angles and visibility support his flare theory. Jim counters by describing their thorough process, which included digital still photography, eyewitness accounts, and topographical mapping to ensure accuracy in their analysis.
Art questions why, despite significant national coverage, no one has come forward to admit launching flares. Both Richard and Jim acknowledge the absence of such admissions, further complicating the situation. Richard proposes a potential ulterior motive for Jim’s stance, suggesting a movie deal involving Dr. El, which Jim denies. Jim emphasizes that his work is not motivated by money and that he has never accepted payment for any of his research or television appearances.
Jim elaborates on their involvement with major Hollywood projects, acknowledging that proposals for movies come to his office regularly, but insisting that their investigations remain objective and untainted by commercial interests.
Jim denies any involvement in making a movie about the 10:00 PM footage, emphasizing that his motivations are purely scientific and investigative. He explains that his work in UFO cases and Hollywood projects is separate from his current investigations. Richard accuses Jim of manipulating the 10:00 PM footage to secure a movie deal, which Jim vehemently denies, insisting on his integrity and dedication to uncovering the truth.
Jim mentions that they have timestamps on videos proving the footage’s authenticity, with eyewitnesses corroborating the timings and locations. Richard continues to insist that the lights are flares, citing consistent observations over three months and the need for further investigation. He asserts that his analysis is based on scientific methods and credible data, challenging Jim to provide notarized evidence from the National Guard.
Art points out that with the extensive media coverage, it seems unlikely that no one responsible for launching flares has come forward. Jim agrees, reiterating that their thorough investigations have found no evidence supporting the flare theory. The debate highlights a fundamental disagreement on interpreting the evidence, with both sides standing firm on their conclusions.
Jim stresses the importance of precision and integrity in their scientific work, rejecting any allegations of dishonesty or ulterior motives. He maintains that their rigorous approach to analyzing the footage and eyewitness accounts supports their findings, aiming to ensure an objective investigation into the Phoenix lights.
The debate between Jim and Richard escalates as Richard accuses Jim of retracting his statement about the flares and claiming that a National Guard official lied. Jim denies this, and Richard insists he has a tape recording of the conversation. Jim gives permission for Richard to play the tape, but Richard explains that he needs time to locate and set up the recording.
During the exchange, Jim clarifies that he left a message for Richard acknowledging a newspaper story quoting a helicopter pilot’s hearsay but never stated that the National Guard official lied. Jim emphasizes his commitment to truth and integrity in his investigations, reiterating that he would not make derogatory remarks about the National Guard official.
Art suggests they play the tape after the break to clarify the situation. Jim explains that the National Guard official, Captain Barnes, had been inundated with inquiries and was frustrated by the ongoing speculation about flares.