Art mentions an upcoming guest, Robert Odom, a renowned UFO researcher and president of Stargate International. Following this, Art introduces Dr. Ken Holden, a creationist who challenges the theory of evolution and the age of the Earth, asserting it to be only 6,000 years old and claiming that dinosaurs still exist. The segment also touches on the tragic skiing accident of Sonny Bono, leading to a discussion about the necessity of safety measures like helmets for skiers.
Art then shifts to space exploration, talking about NASA’s launch of a craft to the Moon to search for water and other resources, hinting at the possibility of lunar colonization. The segment takes a more controversial turn with the mention of human cloning, referencing physicist Richard Seed’s plans to start cloning within 90 days. This is followed by a shocking report about a scientific experiment where surgeons successfully switched heads on living monkeys, suggesting advancements in transplant technology and raising ethical questions about such experiments.
Art continues the discussion with a focus on ethical and philosophical questions surrounding advanced technologies. He reflects on a conversation with a caller about the moral implications of using technology to extend life, such as transplanting a head onto a new body. Art suggests that the ability to discover such technologies might be seen as a divine allowance, but also questions the ethicality of their use.
The show then transitions to Dr. Ken Hoving, a creation scientist, and his views on various controversial topics. Art expresses interest in Dr. Hoving’s take on recent scientific advancements, particularly in relation to his creationist beliefs. The discussion is set to cover topics like the existence of dinosaurs today, the age of the Earth, and the debate between creationism and evolution.
Art also introduces Dr. Hoving’s background as a high school science teacher and his ministry of Creation Science Evangelism. Dr. Hoving, who resides in Pensacola, Florida with his family, is known for offering $10,000 to anyone who can provide scientific evidence of evolution. This challenge has been a significant part of his ministry, which involves speaking at various venues to promote creationist views.
The segment concludes with a brief interaction with Dr. Hoving, discussing the implications of cloning and head transplantation. Dr. Hoving acknowledges the scientific possibility of cloning but questions its ethicality, comparing it to the development of atomic bombs. He emphasizes that the cloning debate is separate from the creation-evolution discussion, as it involves manipulating existing complex DNA codes. The conversation touches on the potential practical applications of cloning, such as creating a second body for oneself, and the moral dilemmas associated with such advancements. Dr. Hoving admits he hasn’t reached a solid conclusion on these issues, indicating the complexity and depth of these ethical debates.
They discuss the possibility of life on other planets and the implications of such discoveries. Dr. Hoving expresses skepticism about certain scientific claims, such as the Mars rock controversy, suggesting that some scientific endeavors might be more about securing funding than actual discovery. He questions the likelihood of a rock from Mars reaching Earth and doubts the evidence supporting such claims.
The conversation then shifts to the search for extraterrestrial life. Dr. Hoving points out the irony of scientists searching for life in outer space while overlooking signs of intelligent design on Earth. He mentions the Vatican’s efforts to set up an observatory on Mount Graham, highlighting the religious interest in finding extraterrestrial life.
Art then explores Dr. Hoving’s background as a science teacher who became a creationist, noting the unusual transition. Dr. Hoving shares statistics indicating a significant number of U.S. high school biology teachers and American citizens believe in a young Earth, as described in the Bible. This leads to a discussion about the compatibility of religious beliefs with scientific theories, such as evolution.
The segment concludes with Art posing a hypothetical question to Dr. Hoving: how he would react if a signal from extraterrestrial life were received. This question sets the stage for further exploration of the intersection between science, religion, and the possibility of life beyond Earth. Art also teases the upcoming discussion about the age of the Earth and the origins of life, promising an engaging and thought-provoking conversation.
Art Bell and Dr. Ken Hoving continue their discussion, delving into the nature of clones and the ethical implications of cloning. Art reads a fax from a listener, Rick, who suggests cloning criminals for the purpose of multiple executions as punishment. Both Art and Dr. Hoving dismiss this idea, emphasizing that a clone is essentially like a twin and punishing a clone for the crimes of the original would be unethical.
The conversation then shifts to the topic of extraterrestrial life and UFOs. Dr. Hoving shares his perspective, influenced by the book “The Cosmic Conspiracy” by Stan Deyo. He believes that UFOs are either top-secret government craft or satanic in nature, dismissing the idea of extraterrestrial origin. Dr. Hoving argues that there is no concrete evidence of life on other planets and that any claims to the contrary are based on a lack of evidence, which he considers a weak argument.
Art challenges Dr. Hoving with a hypothetical scenario: how would he react if concrete evidence of extraterrestrial contact were found? Dr. Hoving maintains that he would remain skeptical until presented with undeniable proof and that such a discovery would not necessarily shake his faith. He suggests that even if extraterrestrial life were proven, there could be other explanations that fit within his belief system.
Dr. Hoving then discusses the biblical account of long lifespans before the flood, speculating on the advanced knowledge and technology that might have existed in that era. He ponders the intellectual capacity of Adam, who was created by God, and the potential for passing down knowledge through generations. This leads to a broader discussion about the development of technology and knowledge in ancient times and how different our approach to life and the environment might be if humans still lived for centuries.
The segment concludes with Dr. Hoving expressing uncertainty about the extent of technological advancement before the flood and its possible transmission to future generations, including Noah and his sons.
Dr. Hoving suggests that the descendants of Noah, who lived for centuries according to biblical accounts, could have been responsible for incredible feats like the construction of the pyramids and other monumental structures around the world. He speculates that these ancient people might have possessed knowledge or harnessed powers that modern science has yet to understand, such as using the Earth’s magnetic field.
The conversation then shifts to the topic of evolution and creationism in education. Dr. Hoving, who taught biology, earth science, and physical science in high school, shares his approach to teaching evolution. He presented it as one of the theories of human origin but also pointed out reasons why he believed it to be impossible. He criticizes the presence of outdated and disproven information in biology textbooks, particularly the concept of embryonic recapitulation proposed by Ernst Haeckel in the 19th century.
Next, the discussion turns to the age of the Earth. Dr. Hoving contends that the Earth is only about 6,000 years old, a belief that contradicts the findings of many scientists who use methods like carbon dating. He challenges the accuracy of carbon dating and other radiometric dating methods, arguing that they are based on fundamental assumptions that might not be correct. He uses the analogy of a burning candle to illustrate the limitations of these dating methods, emphasizing the difficulty in determining the age of something based on current observations without knowing the initial conditions.
Dr. Hoving argues that carbon dating and other radiometric dating methods are based on assumptions that may not be accurate. He explains that the decay rate of carbon-14 is known, but the initial amount of carbon-14 in an object is assumed, which can lead to incorrect age estimations.
Dr. Hoving also criticizes the calibration of dating methods against the geologic column, suggesting that this leads to biased results. He mentions that many carbon dating results are discarded if they don’t match the expected age based on the geologic column. He cites an example where living penguins were carbon-dated to be 8,000 years old, questioning the reliability of the method.
The discussion then shifts to the Earth’s magnetic field, which Dr. Hoving claims is weakening, affecting the formation of carbon-14 in the atmosphere. He argues that the increasing carbon-14 levels due to the weakening magnetic field invalidate the assumption that carbon-14 levels have been constant over time. Dr. Hoving believes that carbon dating, rather than proving an old Earth, actually supports a younger Earth, possibly less than 30,000 years old.
Art asks Dr. Hoving about scientific methods to prove his belief that the Earth is around 6,000 years old. Dr. Hoving acknowledges that there are no scientific methods to precisely determine this age but suggests that various scientific observations can limit the Earth’s age to much less than the billions of years claimed by many scientists. He asserts that his belief in a 6,000-year-old Earth is based on the Bible and historical records.
The segment concludes with Dr. Hoving reaffirming his faith in the Bible and its account of Earth’s history. He states that nothing in science has shaken his faith and criticizes the mixing of evolution with science, drawing an analogy between beer being sold at football games and evolution being taught in science classes.
Dr. Hoving criticizes the current educational system for mixing evolution with science, likening it to the association of beer with football games. He argues that evolution is not scientific by association and expresses concern about the way educators have integrated it into the curriculum over the past century.
When asked how he would present these topics if he were in charge of the curriculum, Dr. Hoving questions the very existence of public schools, suggesting that education should be a state matter as per the 10th Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. He believes that topics like creation and evolution are too emotionally charged and should not be taught in schools to avoid offending anyone. Dr. Hoving proposes that schools should focus on teaching factual biology, like anatomy, and avoid discussing the origins of life.
Art then inquires about Dr. Hoving’s views on evolution as a religion. Dr. Hoving firmly believes that evolution is a religion in itself, lacking scientific evidence. He suggests that teaching either evolution or creation in schools amounts to promoting a religion.
The conversation shifts to Dr. Hoving’s background as a high school science teacher and his transition to a full-time ministry of creation science evangelism. He has offered $10,000 to anyone who can provide real scientific evidence for evolution, emphasizing his belief in a young Earth, around 6,000 years old.
Art also touches on Dr. Hoving’s views on UFOs, which he believes are either secret government projects or manifestations of the devil. The segment concludes with a mention of the “Alien Interview” documentary, which claims to show an alien interview at Area 51, and a discussion on the value of gold as a hedge against economic uncertainty.
.In this segment Art Bell and Dr. Ken Hoving delve into various topics, starting with a brief mention of the tragic death of Sonny Bono in a skiing accident and a discussion about ski safety measures. The conversation then shifts back to the topic of human cloning and head transplantation, with Art referencing a story about scientists successfully transplanting a monkey’s head onto another body, highlighting the potential implications of such medical advancements.
The focus then turns to the debate between creationism and evolution. Art reads a fax from a listener, Dr. Evans, who challenges Dr. Hoving’s creationist views by pointing out that accepting creationism would require disregarding established scientific disciplines like geology, astronomy, physics, and biology. The listener questions why more familiar animals aren’t found alongside dinosaur fossils and raises the issue of the speed of light, which suggests that the universe is billions of years old.
Dr. Hoving responds by dismissing the idea that accepting creationism requires rejecting these scientific fields. He argues that there is nothing in these sciences that contradicts the creationist perspective. When asked about the age of the universe and the distance of stars, Dr. Hoving questions the methods used to measure astronomical distances. He explains the limitations of trigonometry and parallax methods in accurately determining the distances to stars, suggesting that the maximum measurable distance using these methods is about 100 light years. He expresses skepticism about the ability to measure distances to stars that are supposedly billions of light years away, implying that such measurements are not reliable.
Dr. Hoving expresses skepticism about the ability of scientists to accurately measure distances to stars, suggesting that the figures are based on assumptions rather than precise measurements. He challenges the idea that the speed of light has always been constant, proposing that light could be affected by gravity, which would impact its speed.
The conversation then shifts to the topic of redshift, which is often used to measure the distance and movement of celestial bodies. Dr. Hoving acknowledges the possibility of the Doppler effect affecting light, similar to how it affects sound, but he remains skeptical about the interpretations of these observations in relation to the age of the universe.
Discussing the Big Bang theory, Dr. Hoving questions the idea that everything in the universe originated from a single point and expanded outward. He suggests that if the Big Bang were true and Earth were at the center, everything would exhibit a redshift, but this is not the case. He also mentions biblical references to God stretching out the heavens, implying that the universe could have been created with the appearance of age.
Dr. Hoving then addresses a listener’s question about why familiar animals like cats and horses are not found alongside dinosaur fossils. He challenges the premise of the question, suggesting that the way fossils are categorized and interpreted is subjective. He criticizes the geologic column, a framework for understanding Earth’s history, as being largely a construct of 19th-century geologists like Charles Lyell, which he believes influenced Charles Darwin’s views and led to a misunderstanding of Earth’s history.
Dr. Hoving argues that the layers of the geologic column are not different ages, as commonly believed, but were formed rapidly during the biblical flood. He challenges the conventional interpretation of sedimentary layers and the dating of canyons, suggesting that these are based on faulty assumptions.
Dr. Hoving also discusses the dating of fossils, criticizing the method of dating rocks based on the fossils they contain and vice versa. He describes this as circular reasoning and asserts that it would not hold up in a court of law. He explains that the arrangement of fossils in a certain order is based on the assumption of evolution, a practice he traces back to Aristotle and other ancient philosophers.
The conversation then shifts to the discovery of planets around other stars. Dr. Hoving addresses a listener’s question about recent findings by telescopes, which initially suggested the presence of planets due to a wobble in starlight. He mentions that this was later retracted and attributed to a wobble in the telescope itself, not the presence of planets. He remains open to the possibility of planets around other stars but emphasizes that their existence has not been definitively proven.
Regarding the Mars rock controversy, Dr. Hoving expresses skepticism about the claims that the rock contained evidence of life. He suggests that the patterns observed in the rock, initially thought to be biological, were actually the result of a chemical reaction. He also hints at political motives behind the initial announcement, suggesting a need to secure funding for space research.
The segment concludes with Art Bell proposing to discuss dinosaurs and then open the lines for listener questions.
Art and Dr. Ken Hoving discuss dinosaurs and their existence in the modern world. Dr. Hoving contends that dinosaurs, which he refers to as “big reptiles,” coexisted with humans before the biblical flood. He explains that the pre-flood world had a canopy of water above the Earth, creating a greenhouse effect that allowed for longer lifespans and larger sizes in animals, including dinosaurs.
Dr. Hoving suggests that the dinosaurs we find today had small lungs and nostrils relative to their body size, which would have made it difficult for them to breathe in today’s atmosphere. However, he argues that the pre-flood conditions, with higher air pressure and richer oxygen, would have allowed these large creatures to thrive. He also proposes that reptiles never stop growing, which explains the enormous size of dinosaurs found in fossil records.
Addressing the question of whether dinosaurs like Tyrannosaurus Rex were meat-eaters, Dr. Hoving challenges the popular depiction of T-Rex as a predator. He suggests that T-Rex might have been a scavenger or even a vegetarian, based on certain physical characteristics like short arms and chlorophyll stains in their teeth.
Dr. Hoving believes that Noah took dinosaurs onto the Ark, likely as babies, and that after the flood, the world was drastically different. The disappearance of the water canopy led to climate changes and increased radiation, which contributed to the decline in lifespans and the eventual extinction of dinosaurs. He also mentions that humans might have hunted dinosaurs to extinction, which is reflected in legends and stories of dragon slaying across various cultures.
Dr. Hoving asserts that dinosaurs, referred to as dragons in historical texts, are mentioned throughout history in various cultures. He believes that a few small dinosaurs, like the Loch Ness Monster, which he considers a Plesiosaur, still exist today. He cites the numerous reported sightings of the Loch Ness Monster and similar creatures in other lakes as evidence of their continued existence.
Dr. Hoving also touches on the discovery of a dead dinosaur on a beach in California in 1925, providing details about the creature and mentioning a book that includes photographs of it. He suggests that these photographs and other evidence are available in his video series and may soon be posted on his website.
The discussion then shifts to the age and formation of mountains, particularly Mount Everest. Dr. Hoving believes that all mountains were formed during the last few months of the biblical flood. He explains that the Earth’s crust is very thin compared to its size, and the mountains rose and valleys sank during the flood. He mentions that petrified seashells were found near the peak of Mount Everest, which he interprets as evidence that the mountain was formed after the flood and that the floodwaters once covered the area.
Dr. Hoving explains his belief that the mountains were formed during the last few months of the flood, with the Earth’s crust wrinkling and shifting to create mountain ranges and ocean basins. He suggests that the rising of mountains squeezed out water from limestone, forming caves and cavern systems shortly after the flood.
The conversation then turns to the topic of who Cain married. Dr. Hoving states that in the first generation after Adam and Eve, siblings married each other, as there were no laws against it and no genetic issues at that time. He argues that the laws against incest were not given until Moses, 2,500 years later.
Listeners call in with questions, and one caller challenges the idea that the Bible is flawless, suggesting that it is more of God’s ideas expressed through fallible human words. Dr. Hoving counters this by comparing the writing of the Bible to dictating a letter to a secretary, implying that the human authors were merely transcribing God’s words.
Another caller brings up the topic of theistic evolution, which is the belief that God used the process of evolution to create life. Dr. Hoving criticizes this view, arguing that it is outside the scope of both scripture and science. He contends that evolution is a religion and questions why it is taught in schools funded by taxpayers.
Dr. Hoving maintains his stance that the Bible is flawless and that it was written by humans under divine guidance. He criticizes the concept of theistic evolution, which suggests that God used evolution as a process for creation, arguing that this view portrays a God who is unsure and experimenting, which is not the God he worships.
A caller questions the idea of a flawless Bible, suggesting that since it was written by humans, it could be inherently fallible. Dr. Hoving counters this by comparing the process to dictation, where the human authors were merely instruments for God’s words. He also addresses the problem of evil and suffering in the world, stating that these are the results of human actions, not God’s will.
The discussion then shifts to the topic of microevolution, which Dr. Hoving acknowledges as a fact. He differentiates between microevolution (small changes within species) and macroevolution (the idea that different species have a common ancestor), stating that the former is observable and undeniable, while the latter is not supported by evidence.
Art Bell interjects with a reminder about the time constraints of the show and announces a break. After the break, the conversation shifts away from Dr. Hoving, and Art Bell discusses other topics, including a photographer’s capture of the Hale-Bopp comet, a mystery flu in New Jersey, and an upcoming discussion with Robert Odin, an intelligence analyst and FEMA employee.
In this segment the conversation shifts away from Dr. Ken Hoving and focuses on a discussion with Robert Odin about abductions, cloning, and genetic research. Robert Odin, an intelligence analyst and FEMA employee, talks about the possibility of a secret deal between a government group and extraterrestrials for genetic experimentation on humans. While he’s heard rumors about such a deal, he’s not convinced of its reality and hopes it’s not true.
The conversation then delves into the topic of abductions by extraterrestrials. Odin believes that these abductions have been happening for a long time and are now being recognized more widely. He mentions the work of researchers like Bud Hopkins and John Mack, who have been investigating abduction cases. Odin suggests that these abductions involve genetic sampling and impregnating women, and he acknowledges the need for counseling for those affected.
The discussion also touches on recent scientific advancements in cloning and head transplantation in monkeys. Odin expresses concern about humanity’s foray into these “god-like” areas of science. He believes that the government has been involved in human cloning and genetic research for over 20 years, much of which remains secret. He sees potential benefits in genetic research, such as curing diseases, but also warns of the dangers of misuse, such as creating soldiers for warfare.
Odin also comments on the geopolitical landscape, mentioning the shifting relationships between the United States, Iraq, and Iran. He expresses hope for peace and rationality in various regions of the world, including Western Europe, the United States, and the Middle East.
Robert Odin discusses the possibility of a secret deal between governments and extraterrestrials for genetic experimentation. He expresses his hope that such a deal does not exist and acknowledges the complexity of the UFO phenomenon, which he believes has been occurring for a long time.
A listener from Oregon writes in, challenging Odin’s interpretations of different world religions and their relation to UFO experiences. Odin responds by emphasizing his belief in the unity and oneness of the human species and the common ground shared among major philosophical and theological systems. He acknowledges that his views are based on his personal opinions and research.
The discussion then shifts to the topic of security clearances in the military and government. A caller from Chicago asks about the control of information through the “need to know” principle. Odin agrees that many people with top-secret clearances may not be privy to all information, especially regarding UFOs. He suggests that the compartmentalization of security makes it difficult for even high-ranking officials to access certain information.
Odin also addresses the issue of the U.S. government’s black budget and the challenge of balancing national security needs with the public’s right to know about extraterrestrial encounters. He proposes that decisions about what information to disclose should be made by elected representatives in Congress, rather than by a select few individuals.
Odin discusses the possibility that a multinational group, possibly including representatives from major world governments, is involved in managing secrets related to UFOs and extraterrestrial encounters. He expresses concern about the level of secrecy and the lack of accountability to the public or elected representatives.
Odin also touches on the issue of media manipulation by intelligence agencies, citing a 1990 report to Robert Gates from the CIA that boasted about influencing media coverage to protect national security interests. This leads to a discussion about who should make decisions about what information is released to the public.
The conversation shifts to a listener’s question from Portland, Oregon, asking Odin to expand on what he read in the NATO documents on UFOs, referred to as “The Assessment.” Odin describes how the information in these documents, which he saw in 1964, profoundly impacted him and others, including high-ranking military officials. The documents reportedly concluded that there were at least four different extraterrestrial groups known at that time and that there did not appear to be a military threat from these beings. This revelation, according to Odin, was enough to deeply affect those who were privy to it.
Odin explains that only 15 copies of “The Assessment” were published, with the first copy going to the Secretary-General of NATO. He had access to the third copy, which was in the vault in the war room.
Robert Odin discusses the complexities of government secrecy, particularly regarding extraterrestrial life and UFO phenomena. He expresses frustration over the lack of transparency and accountability in the handling of such sensitive information, suggesting that decisions are being made by an elite group of unelected bureaucrats.
Odin reveals that he is in possession of classified material and documents related to extraterrestrial contact, which he would have presented to Congress had he testified. He believes these documents indicate an ongoing relationship between humans and extraterrestrial beings, a relationship he feels should be publicly disclosed. Odin criticizes the fact that Congress, which should be making decisions on such matters, is largely unaware of these issues.
The conversation then touches on the issue of the black budget and the allocation of funds for secret projects. Odin points out the difficulty in determining where this money is going and the lack of oversight by elected representatives. He speculates that his freedom to speak about these matters might indicate that someone wants him to share this information, suggesting a level of support for his efforts to bring these issues to light.
A caller, who also claims to have worked for the government, asks Odin if he believes the government acts as a contractor for the world’s wealthiest individuals. This question hints at the influence of powerful private interests over government actions.
Odin continues discussing the complexities of government secrecy and the existence of extraterrestrial life. He expresses frustration over the lack of transparency and accountability in handling sensitive information, suggesting that decisions are being made by an elite group of unelected bureaucrats.
Odin also touches on the issue of media manipulation by intelligence agencies, citing a 1990 report to Robert Gates from the CIA that boasted about influencing media coverage to protect national security interests. This leads to a discussion about who should make decisions about what information is released to the public.
The conversation shifts to a listener’s question from Portland, Oregon, asking Odin to expand on what he read in the NATO documents on UFOs, referred to as “The Assessment.” Odin describes how the information in these documents, which he saw in 1964, profoundly impacted him and others, including high-ranking military officials. The documents reportedly concluded that there were at least four different extraterrestrial groups known at that time and that there did not appear to be a military threat from these beings. This revelation, according to Odin, was enough to deeply affect those who were privy to it.
A caller from Fort Worth, Texas, asks Odin about the Majestic 12 and whether they employ the Men in Black. Odin acknowledges the possibility of an active containment arm for this group, suggesting that the Men in Black could be part of it. He admits he doesn’t know who they are but agrees that it’s logical to assume they exist and operate with significant power and authority.
The discussion then shifts to crop circles. Odin shares his belief that crop circles are a form of communication from an advanced intelligence. He distinguishes between man-made crop circles and the more intricate, genuine ones, suggesting that the latter are attempts by an extraterrestrial intelligence to communicate and prompt humans to ask important questions.
The show host, Art Bell, reads a message from a major media outlet in Hawaii about a briefing prepared for President Clinton by the Centers for Disease Control regarding an influenza pandemic. The briefing reportedly warned of a high mortality rate and the need for widespread vaccinations. Bell expresses skepticism about some of the more far-fetched claims related to the flu but acknowledges that there is truth in many of the reports he receives.
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