Art starts the show by discussing the concept of rockets, particularly large ones, and mentions the novelty and utility of having one in the neighborhood. He introduces Dan Zaidle, a guest known for his extensive experience with wildlife and his work on “American Man Killers,” which focuses on animal attacks. Dan’s background includes a variety of roles such as private investigator, soldier, and outdoor writer. He has a keen interest in the macabre aspects of nature, which influenced his research and writing. The conversation shifts to animal behavior, specifically how animals interpret human body language, and the increasing incidents of animal attacks on humans. They discuss the rising trend in such attacks over the past 12 to 15 years, with Dan explaining how human behavior can sometimes provoke predatory animals.
Art continues the conversation with Don Zaidle, who provides a chilling perspective on the increase in predator attacks over the past decade. Don cites the alarming rise in such incidents, noting that more recorded predator attacks have occurred in some areas in the past ten years than in the preceding century. This leads to discussions about missing persons, particularly children, and how some might end up as meals for predators like mountain lions. Don shares specific cases, including a three-year-old boy who disappeared in the San Bernardino Mountains and a woman named Lucy Gomez Dutton, whose remains were found in a mountain lion’s “kill bed.”
The discussion touches on the difficulty of quantifying these incidents due to the lack of centralized record-keeping by agencies like the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service. Art shares a personal story of encountering a massive mountain lion during his commute, highlighting the deceptive size of these animals due to their long tails. Don explains that once a predator like a mountain lion has eaten a human, it is likely to consider humans as a future food source. This behavior stems from the predator’s understanding that humans, within their habitat, can be caught and killed with reasonable safety.
Art and Don Zaidle discuss how predators, once they make a human kill, find subsequent human kills easier. Don elaborates that predators like cougars usually kill by crushing the skull or neck, but if they miss, the victim may suffer a prolonged death. Cougars attack from behind, and if they miss the critical spot, the victim may bleed to death or be suffocated. Bears are described as less skilled killers, attacking for various reasons and causing prolonged suffering by pulling their prey apart. Art and Don address the myth that animals inherently fear humans, explaining that this fear was developed when humans regularly hunted them. However, with modern conservation practices discouraging hunting, animals are losing this fear and encroaching into human-populated areas. Don humorously points out that even seemingly harmless animals like deer (referred to as “Bambi”) can be dangerous. Art emphasizes that the notion of human superiority in the wild is a misconception perpetuated by media. They conclude by noting that many missing persons might have fallen prey to these predators.
Art and Don Zaidle continue their discussion, touching on the portrayal of animal behavior in movies like “The Edge,” which Don criticizes for being anthropomorphic and unrealistic. They talk about bears and their possessiveness over food caches, warning hikers to avoid the smell of decaying meat in bear country. Don highlights how animal attacks often go unreported or are downplayed by officials for political and economic reasons, such as attracting tourists or financial interests tied to wildlife.
The conversation then shifts to deer, with Art recounting his experiences of trying to interact with deer. Don cautions him about the dangers, sharing a story from 1990 where a deer killed a man named Buddy Coleman, demonstrating that deer can be extremely aggressive, particularly during the rutting season. Don explains that deer can view humans as interlopers or rivals, leading to violent encounters.
Art and Don Zaidle continue to delve into unexpected animal behavior. Don shares another case from 1995 involving a woman who was attacked by a velvet-antlered deer while walking to her mailbox. The deer not only attacked but also guarded her body for two days, a behavior unexplained by wildlife biologists. They discuss how even domestic animals can turn predatory. Art recounts a case where cats ate their deceased owner, and Don adds stories of dogs consuming their owners, emphasizing that domestic pets retain their predatory instincts.
Don explains that dogs, despite their domestication, are natural predators. He describes instances where dogs revert to their predatory behaviors, leading to attacks on humans. Statistically, dogs are the most dangerous large animals in the United States, causing millions of injuries annually. The conversation highlights that while rabies can cause aggressive behavior, many attacks are simply dogs reverting to their natural instincts. Art is shocked by these revelations, particularly the idea that a domestic pet can suddenly become a predator.
Art and Don Zaidle discuss the reasons behind domestic dogs attacking humans. Don explains that a dog may attack to usurp the pack leader or because it perceives weakness in children, elderly people, or those with unusual gaits. Dogs are inherently predators, and when their predatory instincts kick in, they can become dangerous. Don criticizes attempts to turn dogs into vegetarians, as it goes against their natural diet and can cause health problems.
They also touch on the idea that humans, like dogs, are naturally meat-eaters. Don emphasizes that even domestic pets can revert to predatory behavior, recounting cases of dogs and ferrets attacking and even killing humans. He mentions a recent case in Cleveland where a ferret bit a five-week-old girl, leading to charges of child endangerment against the parents. Art is shocked by these revelations, particularly the idea that seemingly harmless pets can turn lethal.
Art and Don Zaidle continue discussing the increasing frequency of wild animal attacks. Don explains that mountain lions and other predators are losing their fear of humans after generations of living close to human populations without being hunted. This has led to more aggressive behavior from these animals. Art shares a story about a police officer dealing with a deer that had taken refuge in his patrol car, highlighting how even normally skittish animals can behave unpredictably when injured or frightened.
The conversation then shifts to Art’s personal experience with a feral cat. He recounts capturing a wild cat, taking it to the vet for treatment, and attempting to domesticate it. Despite their efforts, the cat remained wild and aggressive, showing that some animals retain their feral instincts even after prolonged contact with humans. Art’s story emphasizes the challenges of dealing with wild or semi-wild animals, underscoring the theme that animals, whether wild or domesticated, can exhibit unpredictable and dangerous behavior.
Art and Don Zaidle discuss the reasons behind the increase in animal attacks. Don explains that the population of animals, including predators, has grown significantly, leading to more encounters with humans. He mentions that urban and suburban areas are seeing more white-tailed deer, raccoons, coyotes, and bears. This increased interaction has led to animals becoming habituated to humans, no longer viewing them as threats. Additionally, more people are venturing into nature, further increasing the likelihood of encounters.
Don shares a story of a three-year-old girl attacked by a coyote at Lake Tahoe in 1997. The girl’s father heard her screams and intervened, fighting off the coyote until the police arrived and shot it. The girl survived but sustained serious injuries. This leads to a discussion about the behavior of coyotes, which generally avoid humans but can become dangerous, particularly when their population increases. Art shares his own experiences with coyotes around his home, noting their eerie howls and occasional proximity.
Art and Don Zaidle continue discussing the rise in coyote attacks, particularly in suburban neighborhoods and parks. Don shares several cases, including a 15-month-old girl attacked in Griffith Park, Los Angeles, and emphasizes that such incidents, while often underreported, are increasingly common. He criticizes wildlife officials for downplaying these attacks, likely for political correctness or economic reasons.
Don expresses his strong disapproval of PETA, accusing them of equating animal deaths with human murders and defending dangerous animals to maintain their funding. He explains that while petting zoos can be beneficial for acclimating children to animals, they may also instill unrealistic ideas about the approachability of wild animals, potentially leading to dangerous situations.
Art acknowledges that many people, influenced by media like Disney, mistakenly view wild animals as harmless. Don underscores the harsh realities of nature, describing it as cruel and dangerous, and warns that even seemingly gentle animals can be deadly. The conversation highlights the importance of understanding and respecting the true nature of wild animals.
Art and Don Zaidle continue their discussion, with Art expressing his aversion to being eaten as a way to die. They take a moment to inform listeners on how to purchase Don’s book, “American Man Killers,” directly from him, where he promises to sign copies.
Returning to the show, Art addresses a call from a vegetarian listener who challenges Don’s earlier comments about vegetarians looking unhealthy. The caller, a long-time vegetarian, explains that he is 250 pounds, 6 feet tall, and very athletic, attributing his health to a diet that includes dairy and eggs but no meat or fish. Don responds by clarifying that he respects personal dietary choices as long as they are not forced upon others.
They also discuss the increasing frequency of animal attacks in urban and suburban areas, emphasizing that this trend is linked to rising animal populations and their growing habituation to humans. Art recounts some previous cases of coyote attacks, highlighting the dangers of wildlife interactions.
Art and Don Zaidle continue their conversation with calls from listeners. A caller from Montana shares a story about an elk that seemed to outsmart hunters by backtracking in its own footprints. Don expresses skepticism about the story, suggesting it might be embellished, as it implies a level of intelligence and reasoning not typically attributed to animals. He explains that animals operate primarily on instinct rather than reasoning.
Another listener asks about wolf hybrids as pets. Don acknowledges the genetic link between domestic dogs and wolves but warns about the unpredictability and potential danger of wolf hybrids. He mentions that wolf hybrids can sometimes behave like regular pets but can also become extremely aggressive, posing serious risks to their owners.
Don Zaidle explains that wolf hybrids are highly adaptable and unpredictable predators, often attempting to assert dominance by challenging their owners for the pack leader position. This natural predatory behavior can lead to aggressive actions, making them dangerous pets.
Art shares a story about his cat Yasu, who once attacked him during a rough play session. The cat eventually calmed down and returned to its affectionate self, which Don attributes to the cat’s instinctive territorial behavior being triggered during the play.
Don then recounts one of the most infamous cases of grizzly bear predation, which occurred on August 13, 1967, in Glacier National Park, Montana. A group of seasonal employees camping out was attacked by a massive grizzly. One camper, Paul Dunn, was bitten, and the group scattered, but 19-year-old Michelle Coombs was unable to escape her sleeping bag. The bear attacked her, with some reports suggesting she couldn’t escape because the bear had the zipper in its mouth.
Art and Don Zaidle continue discussing animal attacks, focusing on a particularly gruesome incident where a grizzly bear attacked a camper, Michelle Coombs, in Glacier National Park in 1967. The bear carried her away in her sleeping bag and began eating her alive, with her final words being “Oh God, I’m dead.” This harrowing story illustrates the brutal reality of animal predation.
Returning from a break, Art reads a fax from Joe, a professional animal trainer in Las Vegas, who criticizes both Don’s and PETA’s extreme views. Joe, known as the Birdman of Las Vegas, has extensive experience working with various animals, including big cats and birds for Siegfried and Roy. He finds Don’s opinions exaggerated and missing the point.
A caller from Oregon, Robert, argues that most animal attacks by domesticated animals are due to neglect and abuse. Don counters by stating that only a small percentage of attacks can be attributed to such circumstances, emphasizing that many people have an unrealistic, anthropomorphic view of animals influenced by media like Disney. He explains that animals operate on instinct and not on the emotional or rational level that people often project onto them.
Don Zaidle and Joe, the Birdman of Las Vegas, engage in a heated discussion about public perceptions of animals. Joe argues that media programs like “When Animals Attack” create a fear-based narrative, imprinting people with the idea that animals are dangerous monsters. He believes this skews public opinion and leads to unnecessary fear and aggression towards wildlife. Joe emphasizes that most encounters with wildlife are non-violent, and isolated incidents should not overshadow the broader reality of peaceful coexistence.
Don counters that people have been overly influenced by anthropomorphic portrayals of animals in media, leading them to underestimate the potential danger animals can pose. He compares teaching children about the dangers of crossing the street to educating the public about the realities of animal behavior. Don stresses that animals act on instinct and can be unpredictable, hence people should be cautious and not assume animals are harmless.
They agree that education is key. Joe suggests that reconnecting with nature and understanding animal behavior through education can reduce both fear and incidents of animal attacks. Don concurs, adding that realistic education about animal behavior can prevent tragedies and reduce the likelihood of aggressive responses towards animals.
The discussion between Don Zaidle and Joe, the Birdman of Las Vegas, continues with a focus on the instincts and behavior of animals. Joe argues that animals react based on their entire history of interactions and fears, and most will avoid conflict unless provoked. He expresses skepticism about stories of coyotes attacking children, suggesting that such incidents are rare and possibly exaggerated.
Don counters by affirming that coyotes and other animals are capable of such attacks, based on his extensive experience and investigations. He dismisses sensational stories from tabloids but emphasizes that real incidents of animal attacks do occur.
Joe mentions a dubious story about an eagle carrying off a child, which he investigated and found to be fabricated. Don, however, insists on relying on credible sources for his information.
The conversation shifts to Don’s book, “American Man Killers,” which can be purchased directly from him for an autographed copy or through an 800 number for a regular copy. Don also addresses a question about whether he believes animals have souls, stating he does not, but he does believe in evolution, though not all aspects as traditionally portrayed.
Don Zaidle and Art Bell continue discussing the concept of evolution and adaptation. Don believes that adaptation over long periods results in genetic changes, but he is ambivalent about the specifics of evolutionary theory. A caller from Sacramento, California, shares a story about hunters trying to wrestle a deer, which resulted in the hunters getting injured. Don emphasizes the dangers and unpredictability of interacting with wild animals, even seemingly harmless ones like deer.
Another caller discusses the dangers of feeding wild animals, which can lead to them becoming too accustomed to humans. Don and Art agree that educating people about the realities of animal behavior is crucial to preventing dangerous encounters. They also address the misconception that the risk of animal attacks is extremely low, comparing it to the risk of being struck by lightning, and explaining that the exposure risk is much smaller but more concentrated for those who interact with wildlife.
Art reads a message from a listener promoting their radio station and recalls experiences in Iran, hinting at another story involving wild animals. The conversation highlights the importance of understanding and respecting the natural behavior of animals to avoid dangerous situations.
A caller recounts an experience in Iran where a pack of approximately 36 wild dogs attempted to siege a walled summer camp compound. The camp managers had to fend off the dogs with spears, sticks, and rocks for over an hour until the dogs finally retreated. This frightening incident leads the caller to ask Don Zaidle about the possibility of such events happening in the United States.
Don explains that similar incidents are already occurring in the U.S., where feral dog packs have attacked people, though not on the same scale as the Iranian incident. He recounts a case from his book where a young boy was attacked by a pack of five feral dogs while fishing. The boy survived by using a defensive maneuver he learned in a hunter safety course until help arrived.
Art and Don discuss the potential for large-scale animal attacks in scenarios where society breaks down, such as during natural disasters or civil insurrection. They also touch on the legend of the Chupacabra, a creature said to suck the blood of animals, with Don suggesting that some of the alleged victims may have been attacked by natural predators like jaguars in Mexico.
Don Zaidle and Art Bell discuss the Chupacabra legend, with Don suggesting that some of the alleged victims might have been attacked by natural predators such as jaguars, cougars, or feral dogs. He also posits that some cases might involve occult ritual killings where human perpetrators drain the blood from animals for ritualistic purposes, contributing to the Chupacabra myth.
A caller from Seattle shares a story about a lady in Golden Gate Park encouraging her child to pet a bird, which then attacked the child. This highlights the dangers of underestimating animal behavior, even in urban areas. Don reiterates that animals are unpredictable and act on instinct.
Don explains that if human civilization were to break down, domestic animals would revert to their instinctual behaviors, potentially leading to an increase in aggressive animal interactions as they struggle to survive.
Art offers Don the option to stay on for another hour, which he accepts. They continue discussing the realities of animal behavior, emphasizing the importance of respecting and understanding animals as they truly are, rather than through the lens of anthropomorphism.
A listener’s fax criticizes Don’s views on animals, suggesting that animals have rights and a place in the world. Don responds by asserting that animals do not have rights in the same sense humans do; they have what humans grant them.
The conversation continues with Don Zaidle and various callers discussing their experiences with animal behavior. A caller recounts an encounter with a pack of dogs while living in Iran, emphasizing the dangers posed by feral dogs. Don explains that while large-scale attacks like the one described are rare in the U.S., smaller packs of feral dogs do pose a threat and have attacked people.
Another caller from Maryland shares how he fended off two attacking dogs with an umbrella. Don agrees that dogs, even non-feral ones, can be unpredictable and dangerous, recounting his own numerous experiences of being bitten by dogs due to his extensive exposure to various breeds and situations.
A caller from Missouri describes witnessing a pack of dogs attacking a heifer and how the leader of the pack seemed to assess her and her horse before deciding they were not a threat. Don confirms that such behavior is typical of pack predators.
Don also addresses a listener’s fax about the rights of animals, asserting that while people can grant animals certain protections, animals do not have rights in the same sense humans do because they lack responsibility.
Finally, a caller from Albuquerque shares a story about a cat that would bring rattlesnakes to the front porch, highlighting the surprising predatory capabilities of domestic animals. The caller also mentions his work in dog training and the importance of understanding animal body language to prevent attacks.
The discussion continues with Don Zaidle sharing his expertise on animal behavior and how humans can communicate with animals through body language. He explains that he has learned to understand animal body language and can predict their responses based on their behavior. Despite this knowledge, Don admits he has been bitten many times, usually due to unexpected encounters or situations where he couldn’t avoid the bite.
Don also discusses how animals respond to different signals and how people can unconsciously communicate with them. For example, making direct eye contact or blinking can convey different messages to animals. A caller shares that blinking at his feral cat relaxes the animal, which Don confirms as a form of non-threatening communication.
A caller from Albuquerque recounts how his cat would bring rattlesnakes to the porch and discusses his experiences with animal training. Don emphasizes the importance of understanding animal behavior to avoid conflicts and manage interactions effectively.
Another caller debates the dietary habits of humans, arguing that humans are not natural carnivores and that eating meat causes many health issues. Don disagrees, asserting that humans are omnivores and that their digestive systems are capable of processing meat. He explains that anthropological and physiological studies support the idea that humans are designed to eat a varied diet, including meat.
The conversation continues with a debate on human and animal dietary habits. A caller argues that humans are naturally frugivores, primarily designed to eat fruits, while Don Zaidle asserts that humans are omnivores, capable of processing a wide variety of foods, including meat. Don explains that true carnivores, like polar bears, cannot survive on plant matter, whereas humans can digest both plant and animal foods.
Another caller, Anna from Texas, argues that animals do exhibit a sense of responsibility, citing examples such as police dogs risking their lives and pets bringing kills to their owners. Don counters that these behaviors are driven by training and instinct rather than a value system. He explains that animals are biological machines operating on survival instincts, not higher reasoning or moral values.
Art Bell and Don discuss the difference between anthropomorphic views of animals and the reality of their instinctual behaviors. They touch on the example of a cat attacking an electric razor to protect its owner, with Don attributing such actions to instinctive responses rather than conscious decisions.
Don Zaidle continues discussing the behavior of animals with various callers. One caller shares a story about a cat attacking an electric razor, which Don explains as an instinctual reaction to unfamiliar and threatening noises, similar to a cat’s reaction to vacuum cleaners.
They discuss instances where animals seem to go beyond instinct to protect their owners. Don asserts that these actions, while appearing courageous or noble, are typically driven by instinctive urges. When humans perform similar actions, they often do so based on conscious decisions and value systems.
A caller from Portland, Oregon, recounts a recent experience of being rushed by a dog while walking. Her defensive reaction—turning sideways and using her backpack as a shield—successfully deterred the dog. Don praises her response, highlighting the importance of non-threatening behavior while standing one’s ground.
Another story involves a domestic male cat attacking its owner after a new female cat and her kittens were brought into the house. Don explains that the male cat was likely sizing up the new rival and acted on predatory instincts, which are heightened by the presence of female pheromones, especially if the owner was menstruating.
Art and Don continue to emphasize the instinctual nature of animal behavior, even in cases where actions might seem driven by higher reasoning or emotions.
Don Zaidle and Art Bell discuss a variety of topics related to animal behavior. A caller from Montana describes a rare incident where a grizzly bear dug up and ate a hibernating black bear, which Don explains as opportunistic behavior not typically observed but plausible. They also discuss the importance of fighting back if attacked by a black bear, as opposed to playing dead, which might work with a grizzly but not with a black bear intending to prey.
Another caller brings up the issue of animal rights activists interfering with hunters, and Don shares his experiences of encountering such people while hunting. He emphasizes the need to remain calm and suppress any instinctive reactions.
Stephanie from Chicago shares a story about a dog that seemingly saved a child from being hit by a car, which was widely reported in the media. Don speculates that the dog’s actions were likely instinctive rather than deliberate, suggesting the dog may have unintentionally pushed the child out of the way while responding to the child’s distress.
As the show wraps up, Don provides information on how listeners can purchase his book, “American Man Killers,” and thanks Art for having him on the show. Art expresses his enjoyment of the conversation, noting that while he may not agree with everything Don said, he found the discussion engaging and informative.