Art Bell kicks off the “Coast to Coast AM” episode from May 12, 1999, amidst technical difficulties due to a severe windstorm in the desert, affecting his ISDN and video lines. Despite the challenges, he assures listeners that the audio feed via a satellite receiver in Dallas will remain unaffected. The show promises an exciting lineup, including a segment with Peter Gersten, who humorously refers to himself as a king, and later, a discussion with Michael Cremo on forbidden archaeology, exploring ancient history prior to recorded human history. There is a brief mention of Coast Insider, a subscription service offering a plethora of show features and a vast library of past episodes. Art also highlights a curious incident in Indonesia where rice farmers discovered a mysterious crop circle, sparking discussions about extraterrestrial intelligence.
Art continues the conversation with Peter Gersten, who humorously describes himself as donning a “wizard’s coat” on Sundays for his UFO reports. Gersten’s organization, Citizens Against UFO Secrecy (CAUSE), aims to uncover the truth about extraterrestrial interactions through legal means. Gersten, a former attorney, has dedicated himself to this cause, believing it is his life’s purpose. He discusses the intensifying energy on the planet and the significant events, such as Y2K and potential first contact with extraterrestrial intelligence, asserting that people are here for a purpose during this critical time.
Gersten explains his quest to bring evidence of extraterrestrial contact to court, confident he can prove such contact beyond a reasonable doubt. However, he faced a setback when his lawsuit against the Army for documents mentioned by Colonel Philip Corso was dismissed. The lawsuit sought documents related to alien autopsies and sightings in 1947 and 1961. Despite Corso’s affidavit confirming the documents’ existence, the Army claimed they couldn’t find them after a reasonable search. The judge dismissed the case, stating there was no precedent for requiring an exhaustive search.
Art and Gersten discuss the challenges of obtaining information from the government, with Art expressing skepticism that the truth will be revealed until the government chooses to do so. Gersten remains determined, indicating he will continue his legal pursuits as long as they are justified, even considering the potential impact of a dismissed frivolous lawsuit.
Art Bell and Peter Gersten continue their discussion, focusing on the challenges of obtaining government information about UFOs. Gersten emphasizes the importance of bringing attention to the contact with extraterrestrial intelligence and the role of media and public interest in this endeavor. He mentions a current lawsuit against the Department of Defense concerning flying triangles, noting that the Department claimed to have no information after searching the Joint Chiefs of Staff and DARPA. Gersten is preparing for a conference to establish the existence of these objects to the court’s satisfaction.
Art expresses skepticism about the government admitting the existence of such objects, especially if classified under national security. Gersten recalls past cases where agencies admitted to having documents but withheld them on national security grounds. The concern now is that the Department of Defense claims to have no information, a different stance than simply stating documents are classified.
Art shares an anecdote from his time in Okinawa, where the government denied the presence of B-52s despite evidence to the contrary, highlighting the disconnect between official statements and reality. Gersten calls for listeners to provide evidence and affidavits regarding UFO sightings and alien abductions, stressing the need to address these phenomena as they are often dismissed due to the nonhuman description of perpetrators.
Gersten discusses the potential impact of a judge who believes the UFO evidence, which could lead to discovery and subpoena power, allowing him to take depositions, including that of the Secretary of Defense. This legal strategy aims to bring more transparency and accountability regarding extraterrestrial interactions.
Peter Gersten is eager to take depositions from key military officials, including those at Luke Air Force Base, regarding the Phoenix Lights and other significant UFO sightings like the Hudson Valley and Belgium triangles. He underscores that the Department of Defense has claimed no information on these objects, making it a challenge to argue national security concerns. Art Bell and Gersten discuss the surreal state of reality, likening it to a virus-infected system, reflecting on the strangeness of the times.
Art encourages listeners to join Gersten’s efforts, acknowledging the difficulty but emphasizing the importance of the fight for truth. The conversation highlights the need for public involvement and support, urging listeners to gather evidence and affidavits. Art introduces Coast Insider, a subscription service with features like podcasting, access to a vast show library, and live chat sessions with George Noory and special guests.
The dialogue touches on the broader implications of government control and the erosion of liberties in the name of security, reflecting a growing concern among Americans. Gersten shares information about CAUSE’s free daily bulletin, which keeps subscribers informed about the latest in UFO research and related activities, noting the increasing energy and engagement within the community.
Peter Gersten highlights the relationship with Keith Rowland and emphasizes the importance of internet access for receiving CAUSE updates through their website. He addresses the listeners without internet access, announcing a new offline newsletter, “Cause and Effect,” which will be available for a nominal fee. This newsletter will provide highlights from the daily updates, ensuring that all interested parties remain informed about UFO sightings, court updates, and personal contact experiences.
Gersten elaborates on his belief that our three-dimensional reality is akin to a sophisticated cosmic computer program infected by a virus. He suggests that his purpose is to investigate this anomaly. Art Bell finds this concept intriguing and credits Gersten for it. Gersten mentions receiving information through repeated sightings of the number 11:11, indicating something is amiss on Earth, violating a cosmic prime directive.
Regarding extraterrestrial lifeforms, Gersten explains that he focuses on evidence and applies legal standards to infer intentions, much like in a criminal case. He notes that abductions are generally nonconsensual and potentially harmful, contrasting with benevolent encounters reported by some. Art introduces the concept of the Stockholm syndrome, where captives begin to identify with their captors, which Gersten acknowledges but clarifies that he remains concerned with the more hostile interactions. They agree that experiences of fear during abductions are significant and should not be dismissed or misinterpreted, comparing it to a victim reporting a crime to the police.
Peter Gersten emphasizes the need to go beyond merely recording and discussing UFO experiences, advocating for active investigation to determine the nature of these encounters. He suggests that if such experiences are real, understanding them should be a priority for humanity. Art Bell agrees, suggesting that any undisclosed government contact with extraterrestrials implies a secretive agreement. Gersten posits that real power might lie beyond elected officials, possibly within the military or higher, hinting at advanced technology interacting with us.
Gersten expresses his belief in being protected from interference, implying that rules of this reality prevent any harm to him, even if he becomes a significant nuisance to those in power. He likens his role to that of a neutral inspector in a larger cosmic scheme, immune to repercussions. Art and Gersten discuss the metaphorical nature of reality and the potential for certain individuals, like Richard Hoagland, being here for critical moments.
Art provides an update on Richard Hoagland’s health, noting his recovery from a severe heart attack and ongoing treatments. Despite his challenges, Hoagland remains active and is expected to address previous criticisms more vocally. They dismiss rumors that Hoagland’s heart attack was faked, affirming the seriousness of his condition and the impact on his life.
Peter Gersten calls on listeners to support his efforts by providing evidence of UFO sightings, especially triangular objects like the one Art Bell witnessed. Gersten stresses the importance of financial support and encourages people to visit the CAUSE website for daily updates. He expresses his determination to break through barriers in uncovering the truth about extraterrestrial encounters.
Art reflects on Gersten’s commitment, noting the significant sacrifice he has made by leaving a lucrative legal career to pursue this mission. Art mentions receiving numerous faxes about being depicted on the TV show “Seven Days” as a Nevada-based conspiracy theorist, a role he finds amusing and somewhat accurate given his public perception.
As the show transitions, Art introduces the next topic, “forbidden archaeology,” suggesting that previous civilizations may have existed before humanity, urging listeners to consider this possibility. Art acknowledges the technical difficulties due to the desert windstorm, affecting his ISDN line and video connection, joking about being a potential Y2K victim.
Art Bell welcomes Michael Cremo, who humorously suggests he might be a reincarnation of Charles Darwin, aiming to correct Darwin’s mistakes. Cremo’s work challenges Darwinian theories by revealing evidence of ancient human antiquity hidden in scientific archives. Despite his educational background in international affairs and languages, Cremo’s disillusionment with government and the academic system led him on a spiritual quest around the world. This journey, particularly his interest in ancient Sanskrit writings from India, sparked his fascination with the origins of human civilization.
Cremo recounts his transition from studying international politics at George Washington University to exploring spiritual truths and ancient human history. His exposure to significant events like the Fulbright hearings on Vietnam further fueled his desire to seek out truth independently. This quest eventually led him to collaborate with Richard Thompson, a mathematician, resulting in their extensive research and the publication of “Forbidden Archeology,” which presents alternative views on human history.
Art mentions Peter Gersten’s idea of reality being infected with a virus, which resonates with Cremo. They discuss the notion that the true essence of our existence should be spiritual, but it is currently intertwined with other, possibly misleading elements. Cremo agrees, suggesting that distinguishing truth from falsehood is a significant part of understanding our reality.
Michael Cremo shares his belief that human beings in their current form have existed for about 2 billion years, challenging both fundamentalist Christian views of a 6,000-year history and traditional archaeology’s estimate of 100,000 years. He notes a growing openness among younger archaeologists to explore unconventional ideas, evidenced by the popularity of his book in Poland, where it has sparked debates between students and professors.
Cremo discusses his book “The Hidden History of the Human Race,” an abridged version of “Forbidden Archeology,” which compiles evidence suggesting ancient human existence far beyond established timelines. He describes one of the oldest pieces of evidence: round metallic spheres found in mineral deposits in South Africa. These spheres, made of hematite, feature parallel grooves and were embedded in a mineral used for space shuttle heat shields. Metallurgists confirmed that the spheres could not have formed naturally, noting their high precision and unique grooves.
Cremo recounts that an engineer who analyzed one of these spheres found its radius varied by less than one-thousandth of an inch, a level of precision deemed almost impossible for a natural object. This evidence was also featured in an NBC television special, highlighting its significance in questioning the conventional understanding of human history.
Michael Cremo continues discussing the mysterious round metallic spheres found in South Africa. He recounts an internet discussion where a geologist claimed such objects could be found globally but failed to provide evidence. Cremo suggests this claim was likely a bluff to dissuade curiosity. He asserts that the spheres, with their precise grooves, could not have formed naturally and were likely intelligently manufactured.
When asked about the purpose of these spheres, Cremo speculates they might have been decorative items, given their composition of semiprecious stone used for adornment. Although there are various theories, such as them being memory devices, Cremo sees no evidence supporting those claims. He shares an intriguing anecdote about one of these spheres reportedly rotating on its own in a museum display case, which captures Art Bell’s attention.
As they discuss the significance of these artifacts, Art reflects on the profound implications of such ancient objects displaying unusual properties. Cremo’s account suggests that our understanding of history and technology might be far more complex than traditionally believed.
Michael Cremo continues discussing the mysterious metallic spheres, revealing that one sphere, reported to rotate on its own, was stolen by what the museum curator described as a “white witch.” Despite this oddity, Cremo remains intrigued by the objects, noting that hundreds were discovered, some embedded in a rare mineral. He shares that his contact in Johannesburg, a mining engineer, is attempting to find more specimens by sifting through the mine’s tailings.
Cremo describes his recent visit to Johannesburg, where he continued his search for these spheres despite the city’s dangerous reputation. He mentions that one engineer is analyzing the magnetic properties of the spheres, highlighting their exceptional precision, with a radius varying by less than one four-thousandth of an inch.
Art Bell asks about other natural objects with similar precision, to which Cremo suggests examining pearls, though noting their varied shapes. Cremo is fascinated by the abundance of evidence for ancient human artifacts, citing hundreds of reports in scientific literature. He shares an example of a Belgian geologist who discovered stone tools and weapons in rock layers 30 million years old, emphasizing the extensive nature of such findings.
Cremo recounts an attempt to locate these artifacts in the Royal Museum of Natural Sciences in Brussels, though initial contact with museum officials yielded no immediate results.
Michael Cremo recounts the effort to locate ancient stone tools in the Royal Museum of Natural Sciences in Brussels. Initially, museum officials denied knowledge of these artifacts, but persistent inquiries led to an archaeologist admitting their existence in storage, not on public display. Cremo compares the scene to “Raiders of the Lost Ark,” describing various stone tools such as arrowheads, spear points, and axe heads, made of flint, clearly indicating they were tools with a definite purpose.
Art Bell questions the dating of these tools, which Cremo explains is determined by their geological context, referencing modern geological reports that confirm the layers of rock where these tools were found date back 30 million years. Cremo emphasizes that the presence of such tools challenges conventional timelines, as the oldest accepted stone tools are around 2-3 million years old, and the oldest known ape-man fossils are about 4 million years old.
Cremo further discusses the California gold mine case, where miners during the gold rush discovered human skeletons and stone tools deep inside tunnels. These findings, reported by state geologist Dr. JD Whitney and published by Harvard University in 1880, date to the early Eocene period, approximately 50 million years ago. Despite the significance of these discoveries, they are not widely known today. The layers of rock at Table Mountain, where these objects were found, have been extensively studied and confirmed to be 50 million years old, providing substantial evidence of ancient human presence.
Michael Cremo explains that initial inquiries at the Royal Museum of Natural Sciences in Brussels about ancient stone tools yielded no information, but persistence led to the discovery that these tools were indeed stored there. The tools, including arrowheads and axe heads made of flint, are clearly not naturally formed, indicating their use as tools. Despite their significance, these artifacts are not displayed to the public.
Cremo describes the geological context of these tools, emphasizing that they were found in undisturbed rock layers dating back 30 million years, confirmed by modern geological reports. He highlights the difficulty of explaining these findings if one adheres strictly to conventional evolutionary timelines, which only recognize stone tools dating back 2-3 million years.
The conversation shifts to the California gold mine case, where miners discovered human skeletons and stone tools deep inside tunnels. Cremo explains that these findings, buried under volcanic basalt and exposed only by erosion, suggest an age of around 50 million years. This challenges the established timeline of human evolution, and Cremo describes the reluctance of the scientific community to accept such evidence, citing an influential anthropologist who dismissed the findings to align with the accepted theory of human evolution.
Cremo mentions attempts to view these artifacts for a television special, but the museum was uncooperative, reflecting a broader pattern of knowledge filtration where inconvenient evidence is often ignored or dismissed.
Michael Cremo recounts the difficulties faced when trying to access ancient artifacts at the Hearst Museum of Natural History at UC Berkeley for the NBC television special “The Mysterious Origins of Man.” Despite having six months to produce the show and offering to cover expenses, museum officials refused to allow access to the 50-million-year-old artifacts from the California gold mines, providing no clear reason for their denial.
Cremo suggests the museum’s reluctance stemmed from a fear that the artifacts would challenge established scientific theories. The special relied on photographs taken in the 19th century by Dr. JD Whitney, the state geologist of California, who documented these artifacts and placed them in the university’s care.
The broadcast of the program sparked outrage in the scientific community, leading to a campaign to prevent NBC from re-airing the show. Scientists wrote to the president of General Electric, NBC’s parent company, urging them to stop the broadcast. In response, NBC marketed the program as “the show scientists don’t want you to see,” increasing interest.
Efforts escalated when scientists appealed to the FCC, proposing that NBC should apologize publicly and be fined millions of dollars for what they deemed irresponsible journalism. However, the FCC did not act on these requests, highlighting the extreme measures some scientists were willing to take to suppress information that contradicted accepted theories.
Art Bell and Cremo discuss the absurdity of these actions, noting the overreach in attempting to control scientific discourse through regulatory means.
Michael Cremo and Art Bell discuss the failed attempts by scientists to prevent NBC from re-airing the television special “The Mysterious Origins of Man,” which presented controversial evidence challenging established scientific theories. The scientists’ campaign, including calls to the FCC and proposals for public apologies and fines, ultimately did not succeed. This situation highlights the tension between scientific orthodoxy and media interests driven by ratings and money.
Cremo reflects on the broader implications, suggesting divisions among those who control major institutions and noting that media companies prioritize ratings and revenue. Art shares his experience with CSICOP, an organization known for its skeptical stance on paranormal topics, which awarded him the “Snuffed Candle Award” without even listening to his show, revealing a bias against his content.
They discuss CSICOP’s strategy to influence media content by buying stock in media companies to attend board meetings and advocate against programs like “The X-Files.” This effort aims to suppress imaginative and alternative narratives.
Cremo compares the current scientific orthodoxy to the declining communist regimes, noting a growing public interest in UFOs and the paranormal, with polls showing significant belief in these phenomena. He observes that even within the scientific community, there are defectors forming their own research organizations to explore forbidden topics.
Art and Cremo agree that the desperation of orthodox defenders can lead to extreme measures, likening it to the last desperate actions of failing regimes. They discuss the potential for a world where Cremo’s theories are widely accepted, speculating on how ratings and money could drive mainstream acceptance of such information, ultimately aligning public belief with controversial scientific discoveries.
Michael Cremo speculates on the potential impact if society accepted that humans have existed for 50 million years or longer. He believes this would demand a new explanation for human origins, likely involving intelligent design and control of the universe, as such ancient evidence cannot be easily explained by evolutionary processes alone. Cremo suggests that recognizing humans as composed of matter, mind, and spirit expands the scope of possible explanations for our origins, leading to discussions about divine control or a higher intelligence.
Cremo references historical figures like Marie and Pierre Curie, who, despite their contributions to physics, were also involved in psychical research, observing phenomena like table levitation, which they documented under controlled conditions. This aspect of their work is often omitted from mainstream scientific narratives, indicating a reluctance to acknowledge elements of mind and consciousness beyond physical matter.
Art Bell and Cremo discuss the broader implications of these ideas, suggesting that incorporating mind and spirit into our understanding of human existence challenges the current scientific establishment, which tends to exclude divine or intelligent design concepts. They note that intellectual power significantly influences civilization’s direction, and there has been a longstanding intellectual conflict between science and the concept of God.
Cremo and Art agree that this intellectual battle, ongoing for centuries, reflects a deeper struggle over the control of knowledge and belief systems. They ponder whether this conflict will be resolved in their lifetimes, as society continues to grapple with integrating spiritual and scientific perspectives.
Art Bell and Michael Cremo discuss unusual archaeological findings, including a humanoid skeleton discovered in Ligonier, Texas, with unique features like three fingers and a thumb, and large sclerotic eye rings. Cremo references ancient Sanskrit writings, which mention 400,000 human species across the universe, suggesting the possibility of various strange humanoid forms.
Cremo elaborates on the challenges of preserving and accessing evidence that contradicts accepted scientific theories. Reports of giant skeletons with two rows of teeth and other anomalous artifacts often go unpreserved or are difficult to locate. He draws parallels to how some UFO reports turn out to be misidentified aircraft but emphasizes that this doesn’t negate the existence of genuine unidentified phenomena.
Sharing personal experiences, Cremo describes being warmly received by students in Hungary, where his lectures on “The Hidden History of the Human Race” drew large audiences. However, he faced opposition from fundamentalist Darwinian scientists who attempted to prevent him from speaking at universities and sought to remove a professor who had authorized his lecture. Despite these challenges, Cremo successfully continued his lectures in Hungary, highlighting a recurring pattern of resistance but ultimate failure to suppress controversial ideas.
Art Bell relates to Cremo’s experiences, noting that his show also faces ridicule and personal attacks from the scientific community, despite a large and engaged audience. Cremo agrees, noting that even some orthodox scientists show interest in his work. He recalls being invited to speak at the Department of Nuclear Physics at a major university in Budapest, reflecting growing curiosity about unconventional scientific topics.
Michael Cremo recounts presenting the hidden history of physics, including the Curie’s involvement in psychical research, to an audience of physics professors and graduate students. After his talk, the head of the physics department privately shared his own experiments with telepathy involving his son, achieving significantly above-chance results, though he kept this research secret from his colleagues. This indicates that some scientists privately explore unconventional topics despite public adherence to orthodox views.
Cremo shares his experience at the World Archaeological Congress, where he presented evidence focusing on the past 2 million years to a mixed reaction. A young archaeologist from South Africa approached him afterward, expressing agreement with his views and interest in his work, reflecting a generational shift in openness to alternative ideas.
Art Bell notes that while younger scientists might privately entertain different ideas, the pressures of the academic system often force conformity to survive. Cremo compares this to the former communist regimes, where individuals joined the party to advance their careers despite personal doubts, suggesting that a critical mass of dissenters could eventually lead to change.
Cremo highlights the discovery of anatomically modern human footprints by Mary Leakey in Laetoli, Tanzania, dated to 4 million years ago, which contradict the skeletal structure of known ape-men like Australopithecus from the same period. He mentions questioning Ron Clarke, who discovered an Australopithecus skeleton with a distinctly ape-like foot, about the discrepancy between these ape-like feet and the modern human-like footprints found by Leakey.
Michael Cremo describes a humorous yet revealing interaction with Ron Clarke, who discovered an Australopithecus skeleton. When questioned about the discrepancy between Clarke’s ape-like foot findings and the anatomically modern human footprints discovered by Mary Leakey, Clarke suggested that the ape-man walked with toes curled under to mimic human footprints, a claim met with agreement from other archaeologists but laughter from Cremo.
Cremo recounts discussing this exchange on a South African talk radio show, leading to a heated debate with Clarke, who dismissed Cremo’s claims as “baloney.” Cremo countered by listing multiple instances of evidence supporting the presence of anatomically modern humans 4 million years ago. Clarke’s response was that scientists sometimes say crazy things that aren’t true, which Cremo found ironic.
The discussion highlights the resistance within the scientific community to evidence that contradicts established theories. Cremo notes the growing presence of talk radio in South Africa and its role in allowing people to express controversial opinions, a new concept in many countries.
Art Bell and Cremo reflect on the state of the battle for acceptance of alternative theories in science. While acknowledging the persistence of orthodoxy, Cremo sees a shift, particularly among younger scientists and some open-minded older ones. Art suggests that belief in a creator and acceptance of ancient human existence are not mutually exclusive, a view Cremo shares and is exploring in a new book.
Cremo mentions corresponding with a Catholic philosopher who, influenced by “Forbidden Archeology,” is developing a proposal to reconcile Christian theology with the idea of human origins spanning millions or billions of years, showing a growing willingness to integrate diverse perspectives on human history and spirituality.
Michael Cremo and Art Bell prepare to open the phone lines for listener questions, emphasizing the “forbidden” nature of Cremo’s work in forbidden archaeology. As they discuss the implications of Cremo’s theories, Art reflects on his role in moderating intense debates among scholars like Graham Hancock, Robert Bauval, and Zahi Hawass regarding the age of the pyramids and the Sphinx in Egypt. These debates, often heated, focus on whether these structures date back 2,000 years or as far as 10,000 to 11,000 years.
Cremo notes that the debate about Egyptian artifacts involves a much shorter timeframe compared to his research, which deals with evidence of anatomically modern humans and civilizations dating back hundreds of thousands to millions of years. He points out that mainstream science typically dates the emergence of urban and village life to about 10,000 years ago, with higher civilizations like ancient Egypt dating back 6,000 to 7,000 years.
Art highlights the contrast between the intense academic debates over a few thousand years and Cremo’s proposals of vastly greater timescales, acknowledging the significant challenge Cremo faces in gaining acceptance for his theories. They agree that the resistance Cremo encounters is much greater due to the radical nature of his claims compared to more conventional scholarly disputes.
Michael Cremo discusses his relationship with Graham Hancock, who wrote the foreword for the paperback edition of “The Hidden History of the Human Race.” They both challenge accepted historical timelines, although Hancock focuses on the origins of civilization in Egypt, while Cremo addresses much longer timeframes. Cremo notes that orthodox scientists have a significant investment in maintaining established dates, making challenges to their timelines particularly contentious.
Cremo highlights that many ancient cultures, such as the Egyptians, Babylonians, Indians, and Chinese, have historical records suggesting much older origins than commonly accepted. These records often mention timelines extending tens of thousands to millions of years. He explains that European colonizers in the 18th and 19th centuries rewrote these histories to fit their own beliefs about the earth’s age, influenced by their religious views. Even after Darwinism challenged these religious foundations, historians maintained the shortened timelines.
Art Bell and Cremo discuss the continued intellectual domination by European perspectives, noting that even countries freed from political or economic control often still adhere to the historical narratives imposed on them. Cremo mentions Native American scholars, such as Vine Deloria, who challenge these imposed histories, citing evidence from “Forbidden Archeology” to support the idea that Native Americans reject the notion of having migrated from Siberia only 20,000 years ago.
A caller from Omaha references a biblical mystery supporting Cremo’s findings, noting that Genesis mentions the creation of man in God’s image on the sixth day, but Adam and Eve were created later, suggesting an earlier creation of humans. The caller suggests that the “days” in Genesis could represent much longer periods, potentially aligning with Cremo’s evidence of ancient human existence.
Cremo acknowledges this interpretation, adding that the biblical timeline could indeed accommodate much older human origins.
Michael Cremo and a caller discuss the possibility of generations of humans existing before Adam, a topic debated among certain Christian theologians. Cremo mentions that some interpretations of biblical genealogies suggest there could be many generations between the individuals listed, potentially supporting the idea of a much older human history. This viewpoint aligns with debates among Christians about the earth’s age and the existence of pre-Adamic humans.
Another caller, an artist who illustrates for cryptozoologists, mentions his interest in Cremo’s research and identifies himself as a young earth creationist, distinguishing his views from those of progressive creationists like Hugh Ross. He references Kent Hovind, a known young earth creationist, and recalls Cremo appearing on a Christian creationist television show with Hovind. Despite their differing views on the earth’s age, Cremo and Hovind found common ground in their opposition to Darwinism.
The caller inquires about evidence of humans coexisting with dinosaurs. Cremo cites a report from the 1862 journal “The Geologist” of a modern human skeleton found in rock layers 300 million years old, predating the dinosaurs. He also mentions the well-known Paluxy River tracks in Texas, where human and dinosaur footprints were reportedly found together. While some researchers support these findings, Cremo notes that Henry Morris, who initially reported the tracks, later retracted his claims, suggesting the human-like footprints were actually eroded dinosaur prints. Cremo remains open-minded but emphasizes the need for further evidence.
Art Bell humorously suggests that if human footprints were found running alongside dinosaur tracks, it would be more convincing evidence of coexistence.
A caller inquires about the biblical story of Nebuchadnezzar, who was cursed by God to have the mind of an animal and grow hair all over his body, likening this to Bigfoot. The caller mentions a theory from some preachers suggesting that millions of years ago, Cro-Magnon beings were considered sons of God but were cursed into becoming ape-men due to disobedience. This theory also involves Lucifer’s fall, where he allegedly took a portion of human beings with him, leading to their curse, while others were relocated to another galaxy as the genetically superior “sons of God” mentioned in Genesis 6.
Cremo finds these ideas intriguing and notes that many wisdom traditions have similar themes of diverse human-like beings existing across the universe. While demonstrating these concepts scientifically is challenging, he doesn’t object to the principles discussed. He acknowledges that evidence suggests anatomically modern humans coexisted with ape-like beings, aligning with the caller’s narrative.
The caller also questions the concept of the “sons of God” in Genesis 6, speculating they might be genetically superior beings from other galaxies. Cremo discusses the notion of giants, noting some evidence that early creations by God included such beings, which could support the idea of diverse and possibly superior human-like entities in ancient times.
Michael Cremo discusses the Nephilim, described in various traditions as giants, and mentions reports of large humanoid skeletons found in different places, though these are difficult to access today. He acknowledges that while proving such claims to skeptics is challenging, the basic idea is plausible.
Cremo criticizes the monopoly of Darwinist perspectives in the education system, advocating for a separation of science and state similar to the separation of church and state. He argues that imposing a single scientific viewpoint through government-supported education limits intellectual freedom and diversity of thought.
A caller from Alaska references the Nephilim mining gold in ancient times, as suggested in some ancient records, and inquires about the presence of gold artifacts in ancient strata. Cremo recounts a report from 1892 of a woman in Illinois who found a gold chain inside a piece of coal, dated to 300 million years old. He notes other reports of gold objects found in similarly ancient contexts, supporting the idea of an advanced ancient presence.
Art Bell introduces the topic of Zecharia Sitchin’s theories, which propose that life evolved on Earth up to the point of ape-men and then experienced intervention by extraterrestrials, creating anatomically modern humans around 400,000 years ago. Cremo explains his differing perspective, based on Vedic texts from India, which suggest a human presence going back hundreds of millions of years. He also references his extensive research into historical archaeological reports, which support a much older timeline for human existence.
Cremo acknowledges agreeing with Sitchin on the concept of extraterrestrial intervention but differs on the timeline and specific details, emphasizing the evidence he has found for a much older human presence.
A caller asks about the Paluxy River site in Texas, known for purported human and dinosaur footprints together. Cremo notes his caution due to the original report being withdrawn by the Christian scientist who first claimed the footprints, though he remains open to the evidence and acknowledges ongoing support from other researchers. The caller recalls seeing a film on this topic in high school and mentions a teacher who led trips to the Grand Canyon, finding pollen in ancient rock layers, which should not exist according to standard geological timelines.
Cremo relates this to similar findings, such as pollen in the Salt Range Mountains of Pakistan, in rocks dated to the Cambrian period, over 500 million years old, predating the accepted timeline for flowering plants. He emphasizes the existence of numerous anomalies in the fossil record, suggesting that the evolutionary story of many life forms, including humans, may not be accurate.
As the show concludes, Art Bell and Cremo reflect on the evening’s intellectual stimulation. Cremo’s latest book, “The Hidden History of the Human Race,” is mentioned as available in bookstores, and he invites listeners to his upcoming visits to chat clubs in Santa Cruz, San Diego, and Orange County, with details on his website.
Art Bell appreciates the challenging nature of Cremo’s ideas, encouraging listeners to engage with such topics, regardless of their personal beliefs, as a means of intellectual growth.