The show opens with Art expressing gratitude to listeners from around the world and prepares for an hour of open lines, hinting at a night filled with interesting content. He mentions the Hampton Court ghost, which he deems the paranormal picture of the year, and highlights that the show’s website features both a video and a GIF image of this ghostly encounter.
Art then shifts to a fascinating email he received, which includes a highly detailed photograph of what appears to be a saucer on the desert floor near Sedona, Arizona. The sender, Thomas, joins the conversation to provide more context about the photograph. Thomas explains that his brother and fiancée, while flying to the Grand Canyon, spotted the saucer and captured the image. The pilot, familiar with the area, had never seen this object before, adding to the mystery.
Art delves deeper into the mysterious saucer photograph sent by Thomas. The discussion revolves around the peculiar details observed in the image. Thomas describes the saucer as having an open door and what appears to be pipes or a ladder nearby. Art, analyzing the photograph, notes a path through the desert, suggesting that something might have traveled to or from the saucer multiple times.
The conversation then shifts to the size and details of the saucer. Thomas estimates it to be about 45 feet in diameter based on the width of the trail leading to it. Both are intrigued by the clarity and detail of the photograph, considering it unusual to receive such high-quality evidence. They speculate about the saucer’s origins, with Thomas sharing that the pilot who took the photograph had been questioned by various agencies, implying a potential cover-up or classified nature of the object.
Thomas also mentions that the pilot, who regularly conducts Grand Canyon tours, had never seen the object before July of that year. This detail adds to the mystery, as it suggests the saucer appeared quite suddenly. Thomas suggests the possibility of an experimental disc, referencing the US Air Force’s past experiments with similar technology.
Thomas shares that the location of the saucer is not widely known, which might be a good thing to prevent interference or damage to the site. He expresses his astonishment at the photograph and the possibility that it could be a craft of unknown origin. Art agrees that it’s an extraordinary find and thanks Thomas for sharing the information.
Art then shifts the topic to current news. He discusses the U.S. government raising the national threat level to orange due to a high risk of terrorist attacks, specifically mentioning concerns about Al-Qaeda using airplanes as weapons. He encourages listeners not to let fear impact their lives excessively.
The conversation moves to international relations, with Art mentioning Libya’s interest in reopening relations with the West and pursuing oil deals, following their commitment to disarm weapons of mass destruction. He also touches on the situation in Iraq, highlighting the capture of Saddam Hussein and subsequent intelligence operations leading to the capture of suspected rebels.
A caller from Utah, originally from Memphis, Tennessee, claims to have the ability to detect the frequencies of materials from photographs and asserts that the saucer in the photograph is not from this planet. The caller confidently states that the object has off-planet frequencies and hasn’t been tampered with by humans. Art listens but doesn’t delve deeply into this claim.
Next, a caller from El Paso, Texas, shares his experience as an extra in Roland Emmerich’s movie “The Day After Tomorrow.” He, along with his wife and daughter, were among about a thousand extras, playing the role of refugees. The caller describes the filming process and their brief appearance in the movie’s trailer. He recounts the instructions given by the assistant director, emphasizing the chaotic and apocalyptic setting of the movie. Art engages in this conversation, showing interest in the behind-the-scenes aspects of movie making.
The caller also mentions the hard work involved in being an extra and the atmosphere on the movie set, describing the large refugee camps, RVs, and cars used in the production. He humorously notes that their ‘grubby’ attire for the movie was similar to their regular weekend clothes. The segment ends with the caller excitedly discussing spotting themselves in the movie trailer, analyzing it pixel by pixel.
A caller shares his experience of witnessing a bizarre sighting in the sky. He describes seeing a column of gray, circular shapes moving silently across the sky in a formation, likening the experience to being in a planetarium. The caller, located near Dulles Airport, estimates that the objects were at a similar altitude to airplanes. Art welcomes him to the “international club of people who’ve seen stuff,” noting that many Americans have reported seeing unexplainable phenomena in the skies.
Another caller from Littleton, Colorado, humorously suggests swamp gas as a possible explanation for the mysterious saucer near Sedona, discussed earlier in the show. Art and the caller laugh off the suggestion, with Art encouraging the caller to look at the photograph of the saucer before forming an opinion. They discuss the government’s typical approach to UFO sightings and the caller’s skepticism about government explanations.
Art then takes a call from Larry in Oklahoma, who mentions he has an answer to a question that frequently comes up on the show. Larry claims to know the identity of a secretive group allegedly controlling global events. He suggests it’s a cabal of families but is cut off by Art, who discourages the disclosure of specific names on the show.
Another caller describes a UFO sighting he experienced two years ago in Fresno, California. He vividly recounts seeing a triangular-shaped craft with lights, which he observed for about 40 minutes early in the morning. The caller details how the craft seemed to respond to his presence, moving closer and then retreating. He notes the absence of sound and describes the craft’s movements as unusual and unlike any conventional aircraft. The caller also mentions that a teacher had reported the same sighting on a local TV station, adding credibility to his story.
Art Bell shifts the conversation to upcoming guest Ron “Mad Max” Fink, a pioneer in robotics. Before introducing Ron, Art reflects on the various UFO sightings and theories shared by callers. He comments on the growing number of people who have witnessed unexplained aerial phenomena, indicating a significant interest in the topic among his listeners.
As Art transitions to the topic of robotics, he shares some background on Ron Fink. In the 1970s, Ron created his own voice recognition system, and in the 1980s, he contributed to missile defense systems. His work in the 1990s involved developing real-time GIS tracking software and integrating complex systems for major companies. Art humorously refers to Ron as “Mad Max” due to his knack for tackling projects that others deemed impossible.
Art then engages Ron in a conversation about the unfulfilled promises of robotics and artificial intelligence. He expresses his childhood expectation that robots would take over menial tasks and transform daily life, an expectation that, according to him, has not yet been realized. Art’s commentary reflects a common sentiment about the gap between science fiction’s portrayal of robotics and the current state of technology.
Ron discusses his current project of developing an autonomous vehicle capable of understanding roads, other vehicles, signs, and various obstacles like barbed wire fences and downed power lines. He explains that the vehicle would be able to navigate in today’s environment, sharing roads with human-driven cars.
Ron mentions the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (DARPA), part of the Department of Defense, which has been funding research into autonomous vehicles since 1990. DARPA aims to have one-third of all ground supply lane vehicles be autonomous by 2015. This initiative is driven by the need for vehicles that can autonomously deliver medicines and supplies to war-torn areas.
Ron also touches upon the ethical considerations in robotics, discussing the incorporation of ethics at the lowest levels of the machine’s programming. He refers to Isaac Asimov’s Three Laws of Robotics as a foundational concept for building ethics into robotics. These laws prioritize human safety and well-being in robotic actions. Ron describes the technical challenge of instilling ethics in a robotic vehicle, involving both software programming and hardware components like 64-bit processors and massive storage capacities.
Art Bell expresses interest in understanding how ethics are programmed into robotics, prompting Ron to explain the different levels of programming in a computer system. Ron talks about how at the lowest levels, every program that works with the computer’s processing power must conform to certain ethical standards, ensuring the robotic vehicle acts responsibly.
Ron explains that at the lower levels of the vehicle’s programming, ethical decision-making is embedded, allowing the vehicle to make judgment calls about potential harm to objects and people. For example, the vehicle might be programmed to prevent a drunk driver from causing an accident, overriding the driver’s control if necessary to avoid harm.
Ron also discusses the broader implications of DARPA’s interest in autonomous vehicles. While the stated purpose is to deliver medicines and supplies in war-torn areas, Art expresses skepticism about DARPA’s intentions, considering their military background. Ron acknowledges this concern but emphasizes the potential civilian applications of the technology.
A key ethical dilemma they explore is how an autonomous vehicle would make decisions in life-threatening situations. For instance, if an accident is unavoidable, the vehicle might have to decide between protecting its passengers or minimizing overall harm. Ron reveals that these are active areas of discussion within their ethics committee, and such decisions are complex and not yet fully resolved.
Art Bell and his guest Ron “Mad Max” Fink discuss the DARPA Grand Challenge, a competition focused on developing autonomous vehicles. Ron reveals that his team was one of 106 initially entered in the challenge but did not make it to the final stage. Despite this, he mentions receiving a phone call praising their software architecture as one of the most robust and powerful among the contestants. This feedback suggests potential future collaborations or opportunities.
Ron explains that DARPA’s challenge aimed to stimulate the development of autonomous vehicles capable of navigating real-world environments without human intervention. The challenge attracted a diverse range of teams, from garage tinkerers to professional engineers, all contributing innovative ideas and technologies.
Art Bell delves into the capabilities of these advanced vehicles, inquiring about their potential functionalities beyond self-driving, such as making ethical decisions or calling a taxi for an impaired driver. Ron discusses the technological advancements that enable these vehicles to navigate complex environments using GPS and other sensors, without the need for electronic signals on the roads.
The conversation also touches on the logistics of the DARPA challenge, the criteria for advancing in the competition, and the impact of these developments on the teams involved, including loss of sponsors and the need for a platform to showcase their innovations.
Ron shares that his team created the International Robot Racing Federation after not making it to the final stages of the DARPA challenge. This new event aims to be more challenging and autonomous than DARPA’s.
Ron then discusses the role of politics in the selection process for the DARPA challenge, noting that teams from well-known technical universities like Caltech and Carnegie Mellon were favored, while smaller teams were marginalized. This created difficulties for many of the smaller teams, leading to lost sponsors and a sense of disappointment.
Art asks about the technologies enabling autonomous vehicles, specifically how they use GPS and other sensors to navigate complex environments. Ron explains that they have developed high-resolution vision systems that work in normal and infrared light, allowing the vehicle to discern different types of objects and surfaces. He also mentions the use of LIDAR, a scanning laser system, for precise distance measurement.
Ron emphasizes that the software and sensory systems they are developing are more crucial for autonomous vehicles than the mechanical aspects. Art agrees, expressing surprise that DARPA did not recognize the significance of Ron’s team’s contributions to the field.
Ron shares that after their team did not advance in the DARPA challenge, they initiated the International Robot Racing Federation, planning an event in September 2004. This race aims to be more challenging, focusing on the autonomous capabilities of the vehicles.
Ron elaborates on the difficulties encountered by smaller teams in the DARPA challenge, mentioning that teams with less reputation or without significant backing from large institutions faced challenges in getting accepted. He also touches on the politics involved in the selection process.
The conversation then shifts to the potential of autonomous vehicles in reducing road fatalities. Ron hopes that their technology could cut road deaths by two-thirds within 15 years. He mentions ongoing discussions with Ford as a potential sponsor, highlighting the commercial interest in this technology.
Art inquires about the practical aspects of autonomous vehicles, such as entertainment and temperature control. Ron explains that the last system he worked on had a voice interface that could control various features of the vehicle, including entertainment systems and navigation, using human voice commands.
The segment concludes with Ron discussing the logistics of the upcoming race by the International Robot Racing Federation. The race, possibly starting and ending in Las Vegas, will involve navigating off-road terrain to demonstrate the vehicles’ capabilities in handling real-world obstacles. Ron emphasizes the safety measures, such as the use of a control box to shut down vehicles if they deviate from the rules or exhibit unsafe behavior.
Art and Ron delve into the technical aspects of the autonomous vehicles. Ron explains that they have developed an obstacle computer system with an advanced learning algorithm. This system can identify and anticipate the behavior of different obstacles, such as animals, humans, and inanimate objects, allowing the vehicle to plan its actions accordingly.
Ron also discusses the practical aspects of testing these autonomous vehicles. They are currently testing camera arrays and decision processes on their own vehicles, including an old Pontiac and three dune buggies. These tests are crucial for feeding data into the computer system to enhance its learning and decision-making capabilities.
Ron explains the advanced technology they are using to develop these vehicles, including high-density camera arrays that create terrain maps and analyze the vehicle’s orientation and direction.
Ron shares that while they have someone behind the wheel during testing, they are not yet at the point where the driver can completely relax or take a nap. He remains confident in his team’s ability to meet project deadlines, despite DARPA’s skepticism.
The conversation also touches on the broader impact of the IRRF and similar contests on technology development. Ron believes that these competitions can push the envelope of technological advancement more rapidly than traditional corporate approaches. He argues that corporations often take conservative steps due to market and risk considerations, whereas contests like the IRRF encourage more groundbreaking work.
Ron also addresses the role of venture capital in funding innovative projects. He points out the difficulty of securing investment for high-risk, cutting-edge technology projects like autonomous vehicles. He sees the entertainment and competition aspects of events like the IRRF as a way to finance and advance these projects outside of traditional corporate and venture capital routes.
Ron shares a personal story about his nephew who tragically died in an industrial accident, which could have been prevented with the technology they are developing. This incident serves as a strong motivation for Ron in his pursuit of creating safer autonomous vehicles.
Ron explains that they are working towards having all the capabilities they have described online for the race organized by the International Robot Racing Federation (IRRF). They intend to make the race challenging enough that it’s possible no one could win, mirroring DARPA’s approach of setting a high bar to stimulate innovation.
Art and Ron also discuss the specific challenges they anticipate in the race, such as navigating railroad sidings, freeway underpasses, areas without GPS signal, and roads without clear lanes. The ability of their vehicles to recognize road edges and other obstacles without relying on GPS is a key aspect of the technology they are developing.
Ron explains the advanced mapping technology they have developed, which allows for real-time processing of high-resolution data. This technology has applications beyond autonomous vehicles, such as mapping entire countries and potentially assisting NASA with Mars missions.
Art Bell inquires about the potential restrictions and fun aspects of autonomous vehicles. Ron clarifies that their goal is not to limit fun but to ensure safety, even at high speeds. The autonomous system can assess whether a situation is safe and respond accordingly, providing a balance between enjoyment and safety.
Ron also reveals that they have patents pending on three new technologies related to autonomous vehicles, including a highly advanced mapping technology. They are in negotiations with an African country to use this technology for mapping purposes.
The discussion also touches on the rules of the IRRF race, emphasizing safety and fair competition. Ron mentions cooperation among the teams and the importance of not interfering with each other during the race. He also discusses DARPA’s involvement in monitoring the performance of vehicles in the race, highlighting the collaboration with SCORE (Southern California Off Road Racing Enthusiasts) to set up chase vehicles for monitoring purposes.
Fink delves deeper into the development of autonomous vehicles and the upcoming race organized by the International Robot Racing Federation (IRRF). He anticipates about 80 teams participating in the open challenge, with multiple media-friendly events leading up to the race. Ron explains the rules of the race, including provisions for vehicles that go out of bounds, highlighting the educational and entertainment value of the event.
Ron shares his personal story related to the importance of autonomous vehicle technology, underscoring the potential to save lives. He also discusses the broader impact of the race, including a four-day event called “Robot City,” which will function as both an entertainment event and a trade show for teams to showcase their technology.
The conversation then shifts to artificial intelligence (AI). Art Bell asks about the current state of AI and when we might have truly autonomous or sentient machines. Ron discusses his personal definition of sentience, which includes 16 capabilities he believes are necessary for a machine to be considered sentient. He describes one of these capabilities as the ability for a machine to “sleep” and “dream,” using spare computational cycles for random associations and pattern matching, which could contribute to machine creativity.
Ron and Art Bell delve into the topic of AI ethics, with Ron emphasizing the importance of embedding ethical guidelines into AI before it achieves sentience. He draws parallels between the ethical decision-making in humans and the necessity for similar mechanisms in AI. Ron believes that sentience in machines without proper ethical programming could lead to dangerous outcomes.
They also touch on Isaac Asimov’s Three Laws of Robotics, which prioritize human safety in robots’ actions. Ron agrees with the essence of these laws, underscoring their relevance in his work.
Ron is cautious about discussing certain aspects of AI development, indicating that there are parts of this field he is not ready to talk about publicly due to the potential risks involved. He hints at the importance of developing AI in a controlled and ethically sound manner.
The conversation then shifts to a listener’s question about the practical applications of autonomous vehicles. Ron estimates that, with the current pace of development and without the impetus provided by competitions like the IRRF, it might take 15-20 years to have cars that can autonomously perform tasks like shopping. However, with the accelerated development through competitions, this timeline could be shortened to under ten years.
Art Bell and Ron explore various hypothetical scenarios to test the boundaries of autonomous vehicle behavior. For instance, they consider how a robot might respond to its owner attempting suicide. Ron believes the robot would have to allow it, highlighting the complexity of integrating ethics into AI.
The conversation also touches on practical applications of autonomous vehicles, such as responding to medical emergencies. Ron explains that the vehicles would be able to detect sudden changes in driving patterns indicative of a medical issue and take appropriate action, such as driving the vehicle to a hospital.
Ron also addresses the scenario of encountering an erratic driver on the road. He explains that the autonomous vehicle would anticipate the need for evasive action and judge whether the human driver is reacting appropriately. If not, the vehicle would take over to ensure safety.
Ron shares a personal story about his early experiences with acrobatic driving, suggesting it may have influenced his path towards developing autonomous vehicles. He recounts a specific incident where his driving skills helped him avoid a dangerous situation, illustrating the potential safety benefits of autonomous vehicles.
They discuss how autonomous vehicles can communicate with each other to prevent accidents, especially during the transition period when not all vehicles are equipped with this technology. Ron envisions a future where the increased safety of autonomous vehicles leads to significantly lower insurance rates, providing a financial incentive for people to adopt this technology.
Art Bell raises concerns about whether the widespread adoption of autonomous vehicles might take the fun out of driving. Ron argues that while it would remove the drudgery of driving, it wouldn’t necessarily take away the enjoyment. He envisions a future where people can choose to drive for pleasure while relying on autonomous driving for more tedious or routine trips.
Ron highlights how autonomous vehicles could impact traditional revenue streams for small towns, which often rely on traffic fines. He confirms that autonomous vehicles would adhere to speed limits, potentially reducing income from speeding tickets. He also touches on the media coverage planned for both the DARPA race and the International Robot Racing Federation race, indicating significant interest from major networks.
Listener calls raise concerns about the potential for remote control of autonomous vehicles by external forces, such as law enforcement or government agencies. One caller worries about vehicles being restricted from certain areas or used to control the movement of goods. Another caller, presumably a truck driver, expresses concern about the impact of autonomous technology on trucking jobs.
Ron strongly advocates for individual liberty and free choice, stating he would oppose any system that allows external control over personal vehicles. He emphasizes the importance of ethical programming in autonomous vehicles to ensure they respect individual rights and freedoms.
Art Bell presents a hypothetical scenario where a vehicle could autonomously transport a person with an outstanding warrant to a police station. Ron categorically rejects this idea, reiterating his commitment to ethics and individual choice in the development of autonomous technology.
Ron responds to Art Bell’s query about the potential for autonomous vehicles in war zones. He points out that while the technology could significantly improve the safety of supply lines, as exemplified by the experience of Jessica Lynch in Iraq, he is adamant about not arming these vehicles. He believes the primary purpose should be for non-combatant roles like delivering supplies and medicines.
The conversation then shifts to the impact of autonomous technology on the trucking industry. A caller, who is a truck driver, expresses concern about job security and the current state of collision avoidance technology in trucks. Ron acknowledges that his technology is more advanced than current collision avoidance systems. However, he believes that the acceptance of fully autonomous trucks will be slow and gradual, initially taking over more mundane aspects of driving before potentially leading to driverless long-haul trips.
Ron believes that the adoption of autonomous vehicles will be gradual, with more capabilities being integrated over the next 5 to 15 years. A caller expresses concern that if these vehicles can be equipped with weapons, they inevitably will be. Ron acknowledges this possibility but maintains his stance against weaponizing autonomous technology.
Another caller from Florida inquires about the practicality of autonomous vehicles for visually impaired individuals. Ron sees this as a key market segment, highlighting the potential for these vehicles to provide a new level of freedom for people with disabilities. He mentions forming alliances with companies specializing in enhanced mobility controls to cater to this market.
Ron provides information about his website, rapidrobot.com, and the International Robot Racing Federation (IRRF), encouraging listeners to visit these sites for more information about his work and the upcoming races. He also mentions coverage of his project in popular science and automotive publications, as well as potential documentaries and movies being planned in Nevada.