The episode begins with Art, broadcasting from Pahrump, Nevada, warning listeners of an approaching storm that might interrupt the show. He sets the ground rules: no bad language and only one call per show. Art thanks his team, including Keith Roland, his webmaster, and producer Heather Wade.
Art reports on international news, mentioning the death toll from fiery explosions in China, which has risen to 50, with 700 injured. He comments on the severe air pollution in China, causing 4,000 deaths daily, and a deadly truck bomb attack in Baghdad. Then, he shifts to a lighter topic, discussing a rare sighting of ball lightning in Illinois during a thunderstorm.
The episode features guest Blanche Barton, a prominent figure in the Church of Satan. Barton, a Phi Beta Kappa graduate in journalism and literature, met Anton LaVey, founder of the Church of Satan, and later became his companion and the mother of his son. She held the position of High Priestess until 2002, when she became the Chairmistress of the Council of Nine. Barton authored “The Secret Life of a Satanist,” a biography of LaVey, and “The Church of Satan,” detailing the history of the religion.
Barton, once the High Priestess and now the Magistra Templi Rex, explains her position as the head of the Council of Nine, ranking just below the current High Priestess. She clarifies the Church’s view of Satan, the Devil, and Lucifer as metaphors, emphasizing their non-literal interpretation in the Church’s doctrine. Barton asserts that they do not worship a supernatural being with horns and a pitchfork, nor do they believe in the existence of God, the Devil, hell, or heaven.
Barton and Art delve into the philosophy of the Church of Satan, highlighting its focus on self-definition, personal responsibility, and making the most out of life, given the lack of evidence for an afterlife. A key discussion point is the controversial naming of the Church. Barton explains that Anton LaVey, the founder, chose the name to emphasize the role of Satan as a cultural scapegoat and to challenge societal norms and sacred cows. She argues that the name serves as a tool to provoke critical thinking and question societal programming and manipulation.
The conversation shifts to the rituals and practices within the Church of Satan, where Barton describes the use of lesser and greater magic as metaphoric tools to tap into human potential and consciousness. She asserts that these practices are rooted in rationality and reasonableness, contrasting them with other religions built on less stable foundations. Barton criticizes religions that promote ignorance, prejudice, and distrust of science, advocating for a more enlightened and scientific approach to human understanding.
Art acknowledges the positive aspects of Barton’s teachings but points out the controversy and fear surrounding the use of the term “Satan” in the Church’s name. Despite this, Barton notes that the Church of Satan has consistently communicated its philosophy for 50 years, yet public perception and understanding remain skewed.
Blanche Barton continues her discussion with Art Bell, delving deeper into the philosophy and practices of the Church of Satan. She explains her official title within the Church as “Magistra Templi Rex” and speaks about Anton LaVey, the founder of the Church of Satan. LaVey’s background is highlighted, including his interests in magic, music, hypnotism, and his experiences working in carnivals and as a police photographer. These experiences shaped his understanding of human nature and contributed to his development of the Church’s philosophy.
Barton emphasizes that in the Church of Satan, Satan, the Devil, or Lucifer are viewed metaphorically, not as literal beings. The Church does not believe in a supernatural devil but uses these figures as symbols to represent certain human qualities and ideals. This metaphorical interpretation extends to the Church’s rituals, where Barton explains the concept of magic in their practices. She describes magic as a personal experience, varying from individual to individual, and suggests that it may be linked to a unique ‘frequency’ that each person possesses.
The discussion touches on the idea that different animals respond to different frequencies in music, drawing a parallel to how different people may resonate with different aspects of Satanic mythology. Barton finds inspiration in various antiheroes and figures from mythology and literature, such as Prometheus and the serpent in the Garden of Eden, viewing them as metaphors for wisdom, intellect, and the questioning of authority.
Barton also discusses the concept of lesser and greater magic in the Church, explaining that these practices are a way of exploring human potential and consciousness. She emphasizes the rational foundation of their beliefs, contrasting it with the ‘foundation on sand’ of other religions. Art asks about the reality of magic and the supernatural, to which Barton responds cautiously, suggesting that there is much about the universe and human consciousness that is not yet understood. She references the use of personal items like hair and blood in traditional witchcraft, highlighting the modern understanding of DNA’s role in these practices.
Barton discusses the concept of magic within the Church, explaining that it involves a combination of intent, ritual elements, and individual potency. Anton LaVey’s approach to magic, as laid out in the Satanic Bible, is detailed, emphasizing the importance of self-awareness and realistic goals.
Barton explains the three basic types of rituals in the Church: lust, compassion, and destruction. She illustrates the purpose and process of a destruction ritual, describing it as a form of psychodrama that helps individuals release pent-up emotions and frustrations. For example, in dealing with a hostile coworker, a member might perform a ritual to channel their anger and then let go, believing that whatever is meant to happen will happen.
The conversation then turns to Anton LaVey’s legacy, with Barton affirming that he did indeed “conjure up the devil” metaphorically by empowering those who identify as Satanists. She speaks about the positive impact Satanists have had in various fields like publishing, the military, art, and education. LaVey’s role in formally establishing the Church of Satan and defining its philosophy is highlighted as a significant moment in giving a voice and identity to those who align with Satanic principles.
Art Bell questions Barton about the similarities between the practices she describes and those of other belief systems, particularly witchcraft. He notes the parallels between the rituals and intentions described by Barton and those of witches he has encountered in previous shows.
Barton elaborates on the practices and ideologies of the Church of Satan. She identifies herself as a Satanic witch and discusses the similarities between Satanic practices and those of Wiccans or other witchcraft traditions, particularly in the use of lesser and greater magic. Barton emphasizes that while many who practice witchcraft may shy away from the term “Satan,” the Church of Satan openly embraces it, considering it a powerful symbol that aligns with their beliefs.
Barton talks about the empowerment that comes from aligning with what is traditionally considered ‘evil’ or ‘heretical,’ arguing that many great thinkers and innovators have been labeled as such throughout history. She asserts that by embracing these labels, individuals can challenge societal norms and expand their paradigms.
The conversation then shifts to a discussion about the existence of magic and the paranormal. Art Bell expresses his belief in magic and the paranormal, questioning Barton about the possibility of a creator or divine being. Barton responds by explaining her atheistic viewpoint, emphasizing her belief in evolution, reason, and rationality over the need for a divine creator. She argues against the concept of an omnipotent, omniscient god, finding it incompatible with the existence of suffering and injustice in the world.
Barton further explains that her alignment with Satanism is an exercise of free will and rational thought. She argues that if a god did create humans with the capacity for reason and scientific inquiry, then questioning and challenging beliefs, including the existence of the god itself, is a fulfillment of that purpose. She asserts her ethical framework is based on societal expectations and mutual respect, rather than fear of divine retribution.
Barton describes the Church’s ethical approach as a form of social contract, emphasizing mutual respect and non-interference in others’ lives. Barton asserts that Satanism has freed her mind and inspired her, providing guidance and strength in life. She discusses the symbolic role of Satan as an antihero, representing pride, defiance, and creativity, even when faced with adversity and demonization by the majority.
Barton reflects on the legacy of Anton LaVey, stating that he “let loose the gates of hell” by influencing generations of people to apply Satanism in their daily lives. She mentions that Satanists are often inconspicuous in society, working in various professions without necessarily disclosing their beliefs, as there’s no need for them to do so unless it benefits them.
Barton emphasizes that the Church of Satan’s goal is not to proselytize but to provide information for those who seek it, combining the poetic and rational aspects of human nature. She encourages understanding and intelligent conversation rather than overreaction upon discovering someone is a Satanist.
The conversation then shifts to Barton’s personal relationship with Anton LaVey. She started working in his office and gradually became closer to him, documenting his stories and philosophical discussions. This led to her writing his biography, “The Secret Life of a Satanist,” which provides an intimate portrait of LaVey, especially in his later years. Barton highlights LaVey’s strength in facing physical challenges, the Satanic Panic, and legal issues, praising his resilience.
Barton also discusses the Satanic Panic of the mid-1980s to early 1990s, a period marked by widespread fear and misinformation about Satanism in the media. She mentions high-profile cases and media coverage that contributed to the hysteria, and how the FBI eventually debunked the claims of an international Satanic conspiracy. Despite the lack of evidence, there were attempts to ban the practice of Satanism, which Barton views as a scary reflection of societal attitudes at the time.
Blanche Barton discusses the impact of the Satanic Panic on individuals and the Church of Satan. She describes how people lost their jobs, went through divorces, and even had their children taken away based on mere accusations of involvement in Satanism. Barton criticizes the media’s portrayal of Satanism during this time, particularly the focus on sensationalized and false elements like animal and child sacrifices, which led to misunderstandings and harmful actions by individuals who believed they were practicing Satanism.
Barton emphasizes Anton LaVey’s love for animals and his clear stance against harming animals or children, as outlined in the Satanic Bible. She points out the irony that while these harmful actions were attributed to Satanists, they were actually instigated by sensational media coverage.
The conversation then shifts to a discussion about individuals who may have extreme or misguided beliefs about Satanism. Art Bell shares an experience with a caller, Patsy, who was devoted to the devil and believed in making sacrifices. Barton suggests that such individuals often use belief systems to frame their personal disturbances or pain and may require professional help rather than indulging in their fantasies.
The discussion becomes philosophical, with Art Bell struggling to reconcile Barton’s views on humanism, the reality of magic, and the non-literal interpretation of the devil or Satan in Satanism. Barton explains that Satanism starts from the position of viewing humans as rational animals, acknowledging both the intellectual and animalistic aspects of humanity. She elaborates on how Anton LaVey reconciled the rational and poetic sides of human nature, incorporating the mystery and magic of human creativity into the imagery and practices of Satanism.
Barton emphasizes that the power comes from within individuals and not from an external source. Barton suggests that this internal power is now being quantified scientifically, mentioning work by researchers like Dean Raden and Lynne McTaggart, which indicates a measurable group effect when people concentrate in the same direction.
Barton also talks about humans as storytelling creatures, drawing strength from metaphors, images, and rituals. She points out that these stories and rituals communicate group values, likening Satanism to other religions in this respect.
The conversation then shifts to a discussion about the “God part of the brain.” Art Bell brings up Matthew Alper’s theory that humans are biologically programmed to worship or believe in something greater than themselves. Barton finds this theory intriguing and relates it to the human tendency to seek patterns and make sense of the world. She agrees that this could be a fascinating area of study.
Art Bell mentions the audience’s mixed reactions to Barton’s appearance on the show, ranging from appreciation of her intelligence and clarity about Satanism to outright dismissal and fear. Barton acknowledges that her views and the Satanic Bible elicit strong reactions, either resonating deeply with people or provoking disgust. She explains that calling herself a Satanist, rather than a humanist, addresses the essential problem that Satanism is not just atheistic but anti-theistic. Barton criticizes the irrationality and scapegoating in religious and political leadership, suggesting that many leaders base their decisions on these flawed principles.
Blanche Barton sees Satan as a metaphor for the quintessential human experience, representing the risk-taker, the underdog, and the triumph of self-determination and pride. Barton argues that Satanism acknowledges human flaws and encourages people to move forward with wit and resourcefulness, creating a life with loved ones without sniveling or whining.
Barton also mentions that there are sins in Satanism and discusses the Nine Satanic Statements from the Satanic Bible, which serve as guiding principles. She highlights the ninth statement: “Satan has been the best friend the Church has ever had, as he’s kept it in business all these years.” This statement underscores the idea that the concept of Satan has been used by the Church to maintain control and instill fear.
The conversation shifts to the concept of God and the challenges of religious teachings. Barton discusses the issues with teaching children about a supernatural being, noting that children start questioning the truth when they sense avoidance or dishonesty from adults. She criticizes linking ethics to the supernatural, arguing that moral decisions should be based on what is right for civilization, not because of divine command.
Barton speculates on the impact of widespread Satanic beliefs, suggesting that a Satanic-minded world might be more tolerant and less violent, with people understanding the necessity of getting along with each other. However, she acknowledges that this is unlikely, as most people prefer not to think deeply about such issues and would rather follow instructions.
Barton discusses Satanic sins and the current state of the Church of Satan. She begins by explaining that the top Satanic sin is stupidity, emphasizing the importance of foresight and considering the long-term consequences of one’s actions. The second sin she mentions is pretentiousness or empty posturing, stressing the importance of genuineness and being able to deliver on one’s claims.
Barton shares anecdotes about Anton LaVey, describing him as a genuine person and a great storyteller with a love for music, old movies, cars, and guns. She regrets that he didn’t complete a book of Satanic parables, which would have been a compilation of his favorite jokes.
Reflecting on the Church of Satan 50 years after its inception and 20 years following LaVey’s death, Barton believes the Church is thriving. She attributes this success to the strength of LaVey’s philosophy, which has continued to attract more members and adherents. Barton clarifies that the Church of Satan does not proselytize in the traditional sense, such as knocking on doors or handing out pamphlets. Instead, the path of Satanism is one that individuals must seek out themselves.
She describes Satanism as a dangerous path, potentially leading one close to madness if they are not prepared for its challenges. This danger stems from internal conflicts and fears, rather than any inherent magical properties of Satanism. Barton likens it to the psychological effects someone might experience when using a Ouija board with doubts, fears, or guilt. The negative outcomes are more psychological than magical, and she advises those who do not find joy or inspiration in Satanism to steer clear of it.
Blanche Barton elaborates on Satanic sins, adding solipsism, self-deceit, herd conformity, and lack of aesthetics to the list. Solipsism is described as the failure to recognize that others may have different values and motivations, leading to vulnerability to deception. Lack of aesthetics, which is part of lesser magic in Satanism, is considered a sin as it relates to the application of aesthetics in life.
Barton reflects on the impact of Anton LaVey’s death on the Church of Satan, indicating that the Church has continued to grow and prosper, proving that it was more than just a personality cult centered around LaVey. She emphasizes that the Church does not actively proselytize but believes in the tradition of the left-hand path, where individuals must seek out Satanism themselves.
She also addresses the dangers of the Satanic path, emphasizing that it can lead to psychological conflicts if a person is not fully prepared or is conflicted about their beliefs. Barton likens this to the effects one might experience using a Ouija board with doubts or fears.
The interview then transitions to a call-in segment, where a caller named Matt expresses admiration for Barton’s conviction to her beliefs and poses a hypothetical scenario about the existence of an evil cosmic entity. Barton responds by reiterating her view of Satan as a metaphor for liberty and challenges the idea of an absolute evil entity, suggesting that such a being could just as easily be a god figure as a devil figure.
Barton responds to a caller’s question about the contrast between Eastern mindfulness practices, which promote ego separation, and Satanism, which emphasizes self-worship and ego reinforcement. She agrees that meditation and mindfulness can increase productivity and align with Satanism in strengthening one’s mind and body. She explains that Satanism involves concentrating energies and aligning with one’s true core, viewing humans as bioelectrical beings.
Regarding karma, Barton suggests that people conjure forth the consequences they get out of life, aligning with the idea of taking responsibility for one’s actions. On reincarnation, she keeps an open mind but doesn’t commit to a firm belief in it.
Barton denies the rumor of Anton LaVey’s deathbed confession and conversion to Christianity, affirming that she was present during his final moments and that he remained committed to his philosophy until the end.
Addressing a question about the Church’s legal status, Barton confirms that the Church of Satan is recognized as a religious entity by the U.S. government and is included in the Chaplains’ Guide for military services. However, the Church chooses not to take advantage of its tax-exempt status, adhering to its principle that all churches should be taxed like any other business.
Regarding the treatment of incarcerated Satanists, Barton notes that while some prisons accommodate the practice of Satanism, the extent of accommodation varies depending on the prison’s administration.
Barton confirms that she identifies as a witch, a term that aligns with her beliefs and practices within Satanism.
Barton refutes the idea of Satanic ritual abuse of children, particularly referencing the McMartin preschool case, one of the most expensive and extensive court cases in California history. She describes the outlandish accusations made during this case, including claims of children being abused in tunnels under the preschool, which were never found. Barton attributes this hysteria to a combination of media sensationalism and public panic, rather than any real involvement of Satanism.
A caller named Dylan raises the topic of the power of abuse and blood in rituals. Barton firmly denies any such practices in Satanism. She explains that Anton LaVey addressed these topics in the Satanic Bible, rejecting the idea that power could be gained from the abuse or sacrifice of innocent beings. Instead, LaVey advocated for the release of energy through more personal and humane means, like a good orgasm in the ritual chamber.
Barton also criticizes the commercialization of fear and misinformation by those who profited from the Satanic panic, including law enforcement seminars and talk shows. She emphasizes that real Satanists were often denied a platform to explain their beliefs, while sensational stories were given more airtime.
In response to a caller’s comment about God and free will, Barton argues that the concept of eternal damnation is a form of coercion and represents a scapegoating mentality. She points out the dangers of this mindset, particularly in how it dehumanizes others and justifies harmful actions.
Barton reiterates that harming children is strictly against the principles of the Church of Satan, as stated in the Satanic Bible. She emphasizes that children are valued as they are closest to their natural state and have not yet been burdened with adult guilts and societal pressures.
Regarding a question about the Church of Satan’s involvement in attempting to put up a statue at the Oklahoma Capitol, Barton clarifies that this was not the Church of Satan but an unaffiliated group whose actions the Church of Satan considers laughable. She explains that the true Satanic posture, as articulated by the Church, supports the founding fathers’ vision of the separation of church and state. Barton argues that mixing religion and state is dangerous, and the founding fathers, many of whom were deists, saw this danger.
A caller, a member of the Church of Satan since the early 1990s, shares his experience of reading the Satanic Bible and finding it to be a revelation of reason, logic, and open-mindedness. He asks Barton about her familiarity with studies on the pineal gland, often referred to as the “third eye,” and its connection to magic, as well as her personal experiences with fluctuations in magical strength.
Barton acknowledges that magical strength can indeed fluctuate, aligning with natural waxing and waning cycles. She also indicates awareness of the pineal gland and its significance, suggesting it aligns with the concept of magic in the Church of Satan’s practices.
Barton responds to a question about the use of drugs in Satanism. She refers to Anton LaVey’s rule against allowing individuals under the influence of drugs or alcohol in the ritual chamber, emphasizing the need for clear intent and concentration during rituals. While some people might use recreational drugs, she notes that illegal drug use can lead to expulsion from the organization due to its potential legal consequences.
A caller from Calgary brings up the topic of satanic ritual abuse, particularly in reference to the Jimmy Savile scandal in Britain. Barton points out that there are pedophiles all over the world, but these cases are not related to Satanism. She criticizes the hypocrisy of those who publicly advocate for conservative values while secretly engaging in abusive behaviors. She also mentions the scandals within the Catholic Church, stressing that these incidents of abuse should not be used to condemn all of Christianity.
Another caller, Paula from California, asks why Wiccans are considered by some to not practice magic properly. Barton’s response is two-fold: she challenges the idea of worshipping a horned god without acknowledging it as Satan, and she criticizes some Wiccans for distancing themselves from Satanists during the Satanic Panic. Barton feels that rather than defending the truth about Satanism, some Wiccans chose to protect themselves by denouncing Satanists.
One caller, Johnny from Pennsylvania, questions whether there could be an intelligence greater than human intelligence, requiring faith. He uses the biblical story of Abraham as an example of faith versus intelligence. Barton responds by expressing her belief that faith is a betrayal of what humans are, emphasizing the importance of independence, discernment, and scientific questioning. She asserts that relinquishing these abilities is contrary to human evolution and progress.
Another caller raises the topic of drugs and their role in opening the mind, asking Barton’s opinion on the matter. She refers to Anton LaVey’s stance against the use of drugs and alcohol in the ritual chamber, emphasizing the need for clear intent and sobriety during rituals.
A discussion ensues about the concept of faith and its place in Satanism. Barton reiterates her commitment to materialism, focusing on what can be seen, felt, and understood through the human body, brain, and emotions. She challenges the notion of needing to believe in something greater than human intellect, advocating for reliance on material evidence and rational thought.
Barton clarifies that the Church of Satan does not promote materialism at the expense of happiness. She distinguishes between greed and satisfaction, stressing the importance of considering the long-term consequences of actions, particularly regarding environmental impacts.
A caller from Atlanta inquires about Anton LaVey’s experiences with filmmaker Kenneth Anger and Hollywood. Barton recounts LaVey’s positive relationship with Anger and his involvement in the film “The Devil’s Rain,” which featured actors like William Shatner and John Travolta. She notes that LaVey enjoyed working on the film set and used the opportunity to share his philosophy with interested parties.
Responding to another caller, Barton discusses the impact of the Satanic Panic on families, highlighting how it caused misunderstandings and distrust between parents and children. She emphasizes the harm caused by baseless accusations and the paranoia surrounding activities like playing Dungeons & Dragons or listening to certain types of music.
Barton also addresses a question about Satanic holidays. She explains that the most important holiday for Satanists is their own birthday, reflecting the Church’s egotistic philosophy. Other significant dates include Walpurgisnacht (the night traditionally associated with witches’ gatherings) and the equinoxes and solstices. She jokes about treating oneself on one’s birthday, aligning with the philosophy of self-celebration.
Responding to a question about a potential schism within the Church of Satan, Barton clarifies that there was no significant internal conflict. She describes the transition of leadership from herself to the current High Priest, Peter Gilmore, as smooth and in line with the continuity of the Church’s philosophy.
Barton also addresses questions about Anton LaVey’s family, particularly his daughters Zena and Carla. She explains that neither Zena nor Carla were involved in the administrative aspects of the Church at the time of LaVey’s death. While Zena had distanced herself from her father years before his death, Carla had reconciled with him. Barton emphasizes that neither was expected to take a leadership role in the Church.
Regarding the Church’s stance on drugs, Barton reiterates LaVey’s strict policy against their use in ritual contexts, emphasizing the importance of clarity and focus during rituals.
A caller from San Francisco inquires about the perceived schism and power dynamics within the Church. Barton insists that the Church remains cohesive and forward-moving in its philosophy. She touches upon the cultural backgrounds of LaVey and his family, clarifying that they were not practicing Jews and that LaVey’s mother instilled in him the belief that “God is nature.”
The discussion then shifts to the consequences of not adhering to the Church’s beliefs. Barton explains that the non-benefits of not following the Church’s philosophy include not getting things the way one wants and not leading a successful life. She emphasizes personal responsibility for one’s actions and life outcomes.
Regarding a query about a potential schism in the Church of Satan, Barton dispels the notion, explaining that there was no significant internal conflict. She highlights the smooth transition of leadership within the Church and praises the current High Priest, Peter Gilmore, for his work and writings.
A caller inquires about the significance of the number 666 in Satanism. Barton clarifies that the number doesn’t hold particular importance to her or most Satanists, aside from its cultural and symbolic value. She mentions that the Church uses the number playfully, as seen in their P.O. box address (Box 666) and describes it as a “wink” towards various interpretations, including biblical and astrological references.
Another caller from Indio, California, shares a personal experience from the late sixties, recalling a visit to a witches’ meeting in San Francisco that left a lasting impression. The caller describes the atmosphere as dark and captivating, akin to visiting the Addams Family house. Barton listens to the story, acknowledging the impact such experiences can have.
A caller from Hawaii questions the moral implications of Anton LaVey’s teachings, suggesting that they do the work of Satan. Barton reiterates her stance that Satan is a metaphor and does not exist as a literal being. She also addresses a rumor about LaVey’s pet lion, confirming that he did have a lion named Togare, which he eventually had to give to a zoo.
Barton states that the Church of Satan does not believe in an afterlife due to the lack of evidence supporting its existence. She emphasizes the importance of living in the present and making the most out of every moment, as the future and what happens after death are unknown. This perspective reflects the Church’s materialistic and pragmatic approach to life, focusing on tangible experiences and the here and now.
Regarding Anton LaVey’s legacy, Barton believes that his impact persists through the people who respect and embody his philosophy. While she is open to the possibility of some form of immortality, she clarifies that this would likely be in the form of lasting influence rather than a continued consciousness after death.
The interview concludes with Barton recommending the Church of Satan’s official website for those interested in learning more about its beliefs and practices, including the symbolic meaning of the number 666.