Art begins the episode with the announcement of a special guest, Robert Monroe from the Monroe Institute. The discussion is set to revolve around Monroe’s experiences and research into out-of-body travel, a concept far removed from conventional physical travel.
Robert Monroe’s journey began spontaneously in 1958 when he started experiencing out-of-body travel. These experiences led him to establish the Monroe Institute. The institute, originating from the research and development division of Interstate Industries, Inc., delved into accelerated learning in the late 1950s. This exploration led to groundbreaking discoveries regarding human consciousness. The institute now functions with two divisions: an education division offering classes and disseminating materials based on their methods, and a research division focused on enhancing human consciousness and developing practical applications.
Art then engages Monroe in a conversation about the inception of these experiences. Monroe recounts his company’s efforts in 1956 to aid learning during sleep using sound waveforms. This led to unexpected out-of-body experiences starting in 1958, initially dismissed by doctors as harmless. Monroe describes a pivotal night in September 1958, where an ordinary thought process about gliding led to a surprising and fully conscious dream-like experience, marking a significant point in his journey of exploration.
Monroe shares a pivotal experience that marked the beginning of his journey into out-of-body experiences. He recalls a night in 1958 when, after feeling a strange vibration, he found himself bumping against the ceiling of his bedroom. Looking down, he saw his own body in bed alongside his wife. Initially mistaking the scene for a dream, Monroe soon realized he was observing his physical body from a different perspective. Panicked and believing he was experiencing the process of dying, he struggled to return to his body.
Monroe explains that this experience was not linked to the sound experiments he had been conducting with his company, as no other subjects reported similar effects. The fear of dying was overwhelming each time he underwent this experience, leading him to consult doctors and a psychiatrist friend, Dr. Louis Wahlberg in New York. Despite assurances of his mental well-being, Monroe remained perplexed by these occurrences.
Gradually, Monroe began to understand that these out-of-body experiences were not harmful. He started to experiment, discovering he could only move a certain distance away from his physical body. Monroe identified a strong sexual urge as a binding force, keeping him close to his physical form. Using a technique inspired by Zen principles, Monroe overcame this limitation, allowing him to explore further during his out-of-body experiences.
Monroe elaborates on the progression of his research and understanding of out-of-body experiences. He mentions that after overcoming his initial fears and uncertainties, he began a series of experiments to delve deeper into this phenomenon. His journey led him to discover an underground community in the late 1950s interested in transpersonal and mystical experiences, marking the early stages of parapsychology.
Monroe recounts meeting Abe Rain, a leading figure in parapsychology around 1960, at Duke University. However, Rain’s focus was on psychic abilities tested through card reading, which didn’t align with Monroe’s experiences. Monroe’s search for understanding led him to Foster Bradshaw, a psychologist, who suggested that he could find answers in India, living in an ashram with a guru. However, Monroe found this suggestion impractical due to his personal and professional commitments.
Undeterred, Monroe continued his exploration, starting with simple experiments like passing through walls and flying, leveraging his experience as a pilot. He aimed to verify his experiences by visiting people’s houses as an observer and attempting to gather information or make his presence known. Surprisingly, he found success in these endeavors, with people perceiving his presence as a swirling gray mist.
It took a full year of such experimentation for Monroe to convince himself of the reality of these experiences, distinguishing them from mere dreams or hallucinations. As he gained proficiency, his experiments became more ambitious, including long-distance travel.
Monroe discusses the scientific and methodical approach he took towards researching out-of-body experiences. He emphasizes that his experiences were different from the commonly researched near-death experiences (NDEs). Monroe details how he transitioned from broadcasting to serious research in Virginia and North Carolina, setting up a research facility dedicated to studying these phenomena.
Monroe’s team initially struggled with the limitations of conventional science in measuring out-of-body experiences. They turned to biological and electrical science for answers. With the help of a PhD doctor and other researchers, Monroe began to document the biological changes occurring during these states. They discovered that certain types of sleep, particularly dreaming sleep and deep stage four sleep, were associated with out-of-body activities. Monroe coined the term “out-of-body” to describe these experiences, moving away from the more mystical term “astral traveling.”
The team developed methods to correlate the timing of out-of-body experiences with specific stages of sleep, using various body measurements and electrical readings. Monroe recalls the skepticism he faced from the scientific community but notes that interest grew as more scientists began to experience the phenomena through the systems developed by his team.
Monroe also discusses overcoming the initial obstacles of fear and understanding the reality of these experiences. By the 1960s, they had begun inducing various states of consciousness in subjects, labeling the first state as “mind awake, body asleep,” referred to as Focus 10. This research led to the development of different states of consciousness induced by specific time patterns, gaining attention in the scientific community by the 1970s.
Monroe and his colleague Skip Atwater discuss the scientific advancements in their study of out-of-body experiences. Monroe explains the use of binaural beats in their research. Binaural beats involve playing two slightly different frequencies in each ear, which the brain then synthesizes into a single frequency, aiding in achieving altered states of consciousness.
Monroe highlights the evolution of their research techniques, mentioning the development of a 20-channel EEG system and an isolation booth. This setup has significantly advanced their research capabilities. Skip Atwater, heading the research division, takes over the conversation to discuss current research developments.
Atwater explains that the advent of computer technology has been instrumental in validating Monroe’s earlier work. By employing computerized electroencephalography (EEG) and brain mapping systems, they have been able to analyze brainwave states more accurately. This technology allows them to observe how sound patterns affect brain activity and how these changes correspond to different states of consciousness.
The research team can now observe dissociative states of consciousness and out-of-body experiences as reflected in brainwave patterns. Atwater describes how they use computers to analyze the overall pattern of brainwaves, which reflect the electrical activity of neurons at all levels of the brain. This method is more advanced than traditional EEG, as it involves creating topographic maps of brain activity, similar to weather maps showing cloud movements.
The discussion delves into the research evolution at the Monroe Institute and its future directions. The focus is on how the institute has utilized advancements in technology to further understand and document the process of out-of-body experiences and other states of consciousness.
The conversation highlights the use of sound patterns, particularly the Hemi-Sync tapes, which employ binaural beats to induce specific brain states. This technique uses low frequency vibrational patterns to synchronize the brain’s hemispheres, facilitating altered states of consciousness. The research at Monroe Institute has involved refining these sound patterns by studying their effects on various individuals.
Skip Atwater, from the research division, discusses the institute’s latest research endeavors. They are using advanced EEG systems and computerized analysis to map brainwave patterns of people exhibiting specific talents, such as musicians or programmers, while they perform their skills. The goal is to identify common brainwave patterns among these talented individuals and develop sound patterns that could potentially help others acquire similar abilities.
The institute’s research has practical applications, too. Over the years, they have developed techniques that have proven beneficial for professionals like dentists, lawyers, therapists, and educators. These techniques are used both in professional settings and by individuals exploring personal consciousness journeys.
The discussion shifts to how the Monroe Institute has evolved and started to share its findings and techniques with a broader audience. The institute’s work, initially very private, began gaining public attention in the mid-seventies when they were invited to conduct a workshop at Big Sur. This exposure led to further invitations and opportunities to test their materials with a larger audience. They named their initial outreach program the M-5000, aiming to gather data from a wide range of subjects.
David Mulva, one of the trainers for the educational programs at the Monroe Institute, discusses the application of their scientific research in educational programs. He clarifies that while the Monroe Institute is well-known for out-of-body experiences, their programs offer much more. They provide tools for personal exploration, helping individuals understand themselves, their life, and their non-physical aspects better.
The educational programs at the institute are not just for people with problems or symptoms; they cater to anyone curious about self-exploration and personal development. Participants learn to use mental tools for various purposes, such as enhancing memory, staying focused in meetings, or solving problems creatively. These programs include concentration exercises and use specific signals to help people achieve desired brainwave states for practical application in daily life.
Participants’ feedback has been positive, with many reporting enhanced lives in various ways. The programs typically last five to five and a half days and are residential. The institute has also started offering weekend workshops around the country.
The segment ends with Mulva addressing a question about why certain Focus 21 Hemi-Sync tapes are not offered for sale in their catalog. He explains the focus levels used in their programs, starting with Focus 10 (“mind awake, body asleep”) and extending to Focus 12, which is a state of expanded awareness.
The Institute believes that while these tapes are not inherently dangerous, the powerful experiences they induce are best explored with the support and guidance of trained staff. This approach ensures that participants are prepared and can integrate these experiences effectively.
Mulva then addresses how the states achieved through the Institute’s programs differ from traditional meditation techniques. The Institute uses neutral labels like Focus 10, 12, and 15 to avoid any cultural or religious connotations, making the programs accessible to people from various backgrounds, including professionals from diverse fields and people of different faiths. This inclusivity underscores the Institute’s commitment to providing tools for personal exploration without conflicting with individual belief systems.
Robert Monroe then rejoins the conversation to discuss his book “Ultimate Journey,” which talks about ‘the Park’, a transitional place people visit after death. Monroe explains that the idea for ‘the Park’ emerged from a personal need when his wife was diagnosed with cancer. He wanted to ensure a system where he could find her after passing. This led to the development of the Lifeline program, which focuses on assisting people during and after the transition of death.
Robert Monroe discusses the Monroe Institute’s Lifeline program, which aids in navigating the transition from physical life to the afterlife. He mentions that the program helps familiarize people with moving from Focus 23, a state immediately following physical death, to Focus 27, known as ‘the Park’. Monroe explains that ‘the Park’ is a waystation for the recently deceased to acclimate and decide their next steps.
Monroe shares that over 400 people have participated in the Lifeline program, each conducting five ‘runs’ to assist someone from Focus 23 to ‘the Park’. These efforts total around 2000 documented cases, and the Institute conducts postgraduate studies to verify these experiences.
The conversation then shifts to the concept of time, which Monroe describes as a physical, earthly phenomenon. He suggests that in higher states of consciousness, the conventional understanding of time does not apply, allowing for the exploration of past and future events.
Monroe also touches upon lucid dreaming, equating it to the Institute’s Focus 15 state, a place of no time. He explains that lucid dreaming can serve as a gateway to out-of-body experiences. Dreams, according to Monroe, are a way for our total self to communicate with our current consciousness, conveying information, humor, and insights.
As the interview progresses, Monroe reflects on the future of the Monroe Institute after his passing. He assures that the Institute has been set up to continue its work well into the 21st century, with a support system ensuring its longevity.
Monroe takes a few calls from listeners. One caller from Seattle asks how Monroe first learned about out-of-body experiences. He responds that it was through personal necessity and exploration, emphasizing the importance of support systems for individuals undergoing similar experiences.
Robert Monroe delves into deeper aspects of his experiences and research. He confirms encountering non-human beings during his travels and describes them as viewing humans with curiosity but without any intent to dominate. Monroe also shares his insights on the concept of a creator or god, describing the Earth life system as a creative process and highlighting the role of the human mind in creation.
Monroe further discusses the notion of time as a physical, earthly phenomenon, explaining that in higher states of consciousness, time is non-linear, allowing one to explore past and future events. He equates lucid dreaming to Focus 15 in the Monroe Institute’s programs, where one can experience a state of no time and expand consciousness.
The conversation then shifts to the public’s awareness of out-of-body experiences, influenced by figures like Shirley MacLaine and the widespread interest in her book and movie. Monroe notes that while the Monroe Institute has not extensively advertised its work, over two and a half million people have used their methods and exercises.
Addressing a question about physical limitations in space travel, Monroe suggests that out-of-body experiences could potentially offer a means of travel beyond these limitations. He recalls experiments conducted in the mid-seventies with engineers and physicists exploring this possibility.
Robert Monroe discusses various aspects of out-of-body experiences (OBEs) and the research conducted at the Monroe Institute. He recounts that during the 1970s, they explored beyond Earth, including the Moon and Mars, using out-of-body experiences. Monroe mentions that initially, they were apprehensive about traveling beyond the solar system due to the fear of getting lost. However, they discovered that simply thinking of their physical body, even from light-years away, enabled a safe return.
A caller from Seattle shares his personal experiences with OBEs, which started as nightmares but evolved into controlled and enjoyable experiences. He expresses concern about losing this ability over time. Monroe responds by sharing an anecdote about a physical manifestation during an OBE, where he inadvertently left a bruise on a woman, highlighting the possibility of physical effects in the non-physical realm.
Another caller questions Monroe about an incident from his book, where he encountered high-voltage power lines during an OBE. This led to a discussion about whether electric fields attract the second body or are the medium through which it travels. Monroe clarifies that it’s not electromagnetic but relates to an energy field that current science can’t measure.
The conversation then turns to the topic of scientific documentation of OBEs. Monroe discusses instances where physical effects have been documented, illustrating the tangible impact of these experiences. He also addresses a question about what happens to the second body if something occurs to the physical body during an OBE. Monroe explains that there are urgent signals, like physical needs, that can pull an individual back to their body.
In this segment of “Dreamland,” callers share their personal experiences with astral projection and out-of-body experiences (OBEs), further exploring the nature of these phenomena with Robert Monroe. One caller recounts how he used astral projection to visit the Viking lander on Mars and experienced a sense of reality in his journey. Monroe acknowledges these experiences, emphasizing the role of an unknown energy field that is not electromagnetic but is crucial in OBEs.
Another caller describes how his intention to call a friend often leads to that friend calling him instead. Monroe interprets this as an example of how humans unconsciously manipulate this other energy field, causing real-world effects. He discusses the ethics of such unintentional influences, suggesting that these occurrences are more common in human interactions than we realize.
A caller from Spokane expresses relief at finding others with similar experiences, validating his lifelong encounters with OBEs. Monroe invites him to share his experiences with the Institute’s staff psychologist for further study.
Another caller from Santa Barbara shares an exhilarating experience of traveling through space and encountering an unknown planet and its inhabitants during an OBE. Monroe acknowledges such experiences and discusses overcoming the fear associated with not knowing one’s location during these journeys.
Robert Monroe continues discussing various aspects of out-of-body experiences (OBEs) and the nature of consciousness. He recounts a caller’s experience of visiting another planet, where the caller was told he came from a penal colony on Earth. This story exemplifies the vast and often baffling experiences people have during OBEs.
Monroe also addresses the parallels between OBEs and near-death experiences, particularly the common vision of a bright light surrounded by darkness. He relates this to what the Monroe Institute calls Focus 27, a transitional stage after death.
The conversation shifts to the institute’s new series for hospitals called “Going Home,” designed to aid terminally ill patients and their support groups in understanding and coping with the dying process. This program offers guided tours of the afterlife and helps in decision-making after death.
Monroe then discusses the importance of choice in dying, emphasizing that many people have a subconscious death wish after completing their life’s purpose. He believes it’s important to respect this natural process and not prolong life unnecessarily through artificial means.
A caller asks about the initial vibrations Monroe experienced during his first OBEs. Monroe clarifies that these vibrations were neither electrical nor mechanical, as confirmed by tests he underwent. This leads to a broader discussion about the fear of death. Monroe strongly advises against fearing death, suggesting that understanding and accepting it can reveal the opportunities that exist beyond physical life.
Monroe affirms the possibility of fully understanding the processes of life and death. He believes that as our personalities and intellect develop, we can easily access and understand these processes, which he considers a part of the human experience akin to the concept of ‘dreamland.’
In the concluding segment of “Dreamland,” Art Bell expresses gratitude to Robert Monroe for his insights and contributions to the discussion. Monroe is thanked for sharing his experiences and knowledge about out-of-body experiences, consciousness, and the work being done at the Monroe Institute. The segment wraps up with Monroe providing the address of the Monroe Institute for listeners who may wish to learn more or contact them.