Art begins the show by greeting listeners across various time zones and introduces Terence McKenna, who he describes as a successor to Timothy Leary. McKenna, located on the Big Island of Hawaii, joins the conversation after coming down from the slopes of Mauna Loa due to poor cell phone reception. He explains his unusual living situation near an active volcano, noting its continuous eruptions for the past 13 years and the unique landscape of lava fields and high mountains. Despite the risks, McKenna believes Hawaii is a relatively safe and exciting place to live.
Art and Terence discuss the concept of time, with McKenna challenging the Newtonian idea of pure duration. He suggests that time, like matter, is composed of elemental, discrete units and that it has qualities that affect human experiences, such as periods when everything goes right or wrong. McKenna borrows vocabulary from Alfred North Whitehead to describe these ideas, implying that science may have overlooked the true nature of time.
Terence McKenna introduces the concepts of “habit” and “novelty,” explaining that habit represents established patterns while novelty encompasses new and exploratory elements. He asserts that throughout history, novelty has been increasingly prevailing. As the universe evolved, complex structures and life forms emerged, suggesting that nature prefers and conserves novelty. McKenna challenges modern existential views by proposing that novelty is a fundamental principle of nature, applicable to everything from atoms to human societies. This idea offers a basis for an ethical system that values advancements in novelty.
Art mentions a critique by Michael Crichton, who argues that the internet may stifle diversity and innovation. McKenna disagrees, viewing the internet as a powerful tool for empowering marginalized viewpoints and fostering a rich interplay of ideas. He suggests that the internet dissolves boundaries between people and ideas, leading to more evolutionary interactions. McKenna also references emerging technologies like plugins for automatic website translation, which he believes will further enhance the diversity and accessibility of information.
Terence McKenna discusses the polarizing nature of technology and elaborates on his theory of novelty. He asserts that not only does the universe favor novelty, but each acceleration into novelty happens more quickly than the last. This progression has led to increasingly rapid advancements, from the cooling of the universe to the rapid pace of human history. McKenna predicts that this process will continue to accelerate, leading to unprecedented levels of novelty within our lifetime. Art resonates with this idea, noting his observations of accelerating changes in various aspects of society over his 13 years of hosting the radio show.
McKenna explains that many people attribute the acceleration of time to advancements in science or media, but he believes it is a fundamental aspect of the laws of physics. During a break, Art reflects on how McKenna’s description mirrors his own theory in his book “The Quickening.” Upon returning, Art and McKenna discuss the nature of this accelerating process and its potential culmination, which McKenna refers to as “time wave zero.” He suggests that ultimate novelty will involve the dissolution of all boundaries, though the exact nature of this outcome remains uncertain.
Terence McKenna describes how the human nervous system is globalizing, creating a planetary model of conscious thought, with many people unknowingly contributing to this grand design. He traces the quickening back to events like the emergence of alphabets and hominins. McKenna claims to have a formal mathematical theory that charts the flow of novelty, represented by a line graph. By fitting historical data against these novelty waves, he predicts that ultimate novelty will collide with historical necessity around late 2012, coinciding with the end date of the Mayan calendar.
McKenna’s interest in the I Ching, an ancient Chinese divination method, led to his discovery that its hexagrams represent a 384-day lunar calendar, part of a fractal timekeeping system more sophisticated than Western systems. He suggests that while the West conquered the nature of matter, ancient China achieved a deeper understanding of time. McKenna’s website, Levity.com, provides further details on his theories.
Art highlights the scientific nature of McKenna’s approach, noting that accurately predicting past events builds confidence in predicting future ones. McKenna explains that his theory identifies when significant events are likely to happen rather than specifying what will happen. The theory predicts a unique point in 2012 where the level of habit drops to zero, indicating infinite novelty.
McKenna elaborates on the rapid acceleration of novelty, likening it to technological and data advancements. He explains that this acceleration is leading humanity toward a transformative event around 2012, suggesting that this could be a process of self-metamorphosis. He believes the universe is involved in a process of self-revelation, which religions and prophets have been trying to articulate. McKenna refers to this concept as the “transcendental object at the end of time” and speculates that it might involve the advent of time travel.
Art raises a question about the absence of time travelers if time travel is possible. McKenna responds that time travel would only allow travel back to the moment the first time machine is invented. This would mean that once a time machine is invented, many time travelers could appear at that moment. They then discuss McKenna’s life in Hawaii, his background in Colorado and California, and his relationship with Timothy Leary. McKenna shares his journey from traditional religion to discovering shamanism and the use of psychedelic plants in South America, which profoundly impacted him.
Art Bell introduces Terence McKenna, emphasizing the need for careful listening to grasp his intriguing ideas. Art explains McKenna’s “Time Wave Zero” theory, suggesting that as we approach this event, we experience increasing tachyon radiation, which may be causing the acceleration of paranormal phenomena. This impending event, predicted for 2012, aligns with the Mayan calendar and could result in significant changes, potentially attracting extraterrestrial researchers. Tachyon bombardment might also impact human perception and environmental phenomena, possibly explaining various unexplained occurrences.
Art reads a fax from Stephen in Wichita, who questions whether novelty equates to acceleration or complexity. Stephen argues that novelty must offer a survival advantage to persist and that population density and profit motives drive current societal changes. Terence acknowledges the ebb and flow of novelty but maintains that we are in one of the most novel periods of history. He contends that the proliferation of advanced human life and culture indicates unprecedented novelty on Earth. McKenna’s computer program, which tracks the ebb and flow of novelty, aligns with significant historical events, supporting his theory.
Terence McKenna explains that his theory of time waves, which predicts historical events with precision, leaves no room for errors or “misses.” He emphasizes that his model accurately describes the fluctuations of novelty and habit in history, aligning perfectly with significant events. McKenna mentions that his work has sparked lively debate among mathematicians on the internet, though he notes that conventional science’s reliance on repeatability and statistical analysis limits its ability to fully accept or understand his theory.
McKenna argues that conventional science studies phenomena so coarse that the timing of their occurrence is irrelevant, excluding more intricate events like history, love affairs, and empire building. He posits that time zones favoring certain outcomes, such as a coin landing heads or tails, challenge the smooth, statistical descriptions of time. McKenna redefines science to include the study of these more delicate, context-dependent events, highlighting the inadequacy of traditional methods.
The conversation shifts to McKenna’s background, detailing his journey from Colorado to the University of California, Berkeley, and eventually to Asia and South America, where he delved into shamanism. McKenna describes his fascination with psychedelic plants, which provide consistent and safe experiences of alien worlds. He briefly mentions his exploration of flying saucers and crop circles, indicating that while these phenomena interest him, they do not captivate him as deeply as psychedelics.
McKenna addresses the fractal nature of crop circles, mentioning Jim Schnabel’s book “Round in Circles,” which he believes exposes the phenomenon. He stresses that the psychedelic community’s evidence on paranormal questions has not been properly evaluated due to societal biases against psychedelics. McKenna believes psychedelics are crucial for understanding phenomena like UFO abductions, contrary to the views of those who think such insights can be achieved through conventional spiritual practices alone.
He highlights dimethyltryptamine (DMT) as a particularly fascinating psychedelic, noting its presence in various plants and its ability to induce experiences akin to entering a flying saucer. These experiences are brief and repeatable, contrasting with other paranormal phenomena. Art Bell reiterates the need for careful listening to McKenna’s insights, given their complexity and significance.
Art introduces the concept of the “Prime Directive” from Star Trek, questioning whether McKenna’s revelations might violate a similar principle of non-interference. McKenna responds by pointing out the timely discovery of psychoactive plants amidst cultural and environmental crises, suggesting these plants offer profound challenges to our understanding of reality.
They discuss the potential loss of valuable plants due to deforestation and urbanization, acknowledging the irreversible impact on human knowledge. A listener’s question about the nature of time and perception prompts McKenna to reflect on the self-fulfilling nature of discovering and uncovering phenomena within ourselves, contributing to the acceleration of novelty.
McKenna explains that as humanity approaches what he calls the “transcendental mystery at the end of time,” we are increasingly taking on godlike powers, such as the ability to span space and time. He envisions a future where human and transcendent characteristics merge effortlessly. Indicators of this process include discoveries like life on Mars, cloning, the rise of the internet, virtual reality, nanotechnology, and possibly alien artifacts. McKenna likens the transcendental object to a mirror ball in dance clubs, with distorted simulations reflecting our gradual approach to it.
He emphasizes that this transformation is already causing a breakdown of ordinary reality, leading to various distorted scenarios. Despite widespread fear and uncertainty, McKenna is optimistic, noting that psychedelic experiences offer a more affirmative form of alien contact than popular media’s portrayal of “grays.” He highlights DMT (dimethyltryptamine) as a particularly powerful psychedelic that induces intense experiences lasting only five minutes. Users feel transported to a place filled with self-transforming entities conducting a visual language lesson.
DMT is found in many plants worldwide and is also produced naturally in the human brain. McKenna suggests that DMT’s role in the brain might be linked to UFO abduction experiences, as it peaks during intense REM sleep. He proposes that alien contact occurs through the human mind rather than physical travel, aligning with the concept of the “dream time” in Australian Aboriginal culture. McKenna views UFO phenomena as the latest expression of humanity’s long-standing relationship with disembodied minds through imagination.
He believes the human imagination is a significant part of our existence and where we will spend much of our future. While some might dismiss this as a psychological reduction argument, McKenna argues that the imagination is a profound aspect of human experience.
McKenna discusses the potential for increased paranormal events as we approach “Time Wave Zero,” suggesting that spikes in DMT levels could correlate with phenomena such as ghosts and poltergeists. He emphasizes the importance of DMT, a powerful psychedelic naturally produced in the human brain, which he believes plays a role in these experiences. He mentions that research has confirmed higher DMT levels during deep REM sleep, though ethical concerns complicate studies on dying individuals.
Art Bell raises the issue of the legality of DMT, noting its paradoxical status as both a natural human neurotransmitter and an illegal substance. McKenna humorously suggests that future roadside stops might include DMT measurements, highlighting the absurdity of its legal status. The conversation shifts to the topic of time travel, with McKenna positing that time travelers will not appear until the first time machine is invented, as it would not be possible to travel back to a time before its invention.
McKenna believes the invention of the first time machine will coincide with the end of linear time in 2012, as predicted by his Time Wave Zero theory. He suggests that this event will lead to a collapse of the traditional, linear perception of time, possibly causing the remainder of universal history to unfold instantaneously. This could result in time travelers appearing en masse, resolving the grandfather paradox by compressing the rest of history into a few milliseconds. McKenna speculates that this moment might also represent a merging of human consciousness with the entities encountered through DMT or those who have passed into the afterlife.
McKenna ponders the possibility that shamans have been using plants to peer into the “great beyond,” suggesting there might be an “ecology of souls.” He mentions that shamans have long spoken of ancestor magic, which he now interprets as actual communication with the dead. Art Bell announces a break, promising to discuss souls further with McKenna upon return, noting how polarizing the conversation is for listeners.
Upon returning, Art reads about a historical study where a doctor claimed the human body loses three-quarters of an ounce at the moment of death, suggesting the existence of the soul. McKenna, viewing this through his novelty theory, proposes that the soul is a complex, ordered form manifest in time. He believes that upon death, this form withdraws back into a higher dimension rather than dissolving, suggesting the soul might have some physical properties.
Art then references a segment from “20/20” about a woman who, after receiving a heart and lung transplant from a teenage boy, experienced his cravings and dreamed of his name, despite not knowing him. McKenna agrees that this implies some essence of the donor was transferred, indicating the soul or memories might reside in physical body parts. He finds this idea fascinating and consistent with his belief in the persistence of complex forms.
McKenna and Art Bell discuss the idea that memories and possibly aspects of the soul are not localized solely in the brain. McKenna refers to Rupert Sheldrake’s theory that everything has a kind of memory that follows it through time, suggesting that organs might carry some form of “karma” when transferred from one body to another. This implies that our soul or being might be distributed throughout our body rather than centralized in one location.
A caller questions McKenna about the fate of the brain’s electrochemical energy after death and the uniqueness curve in relation to chaos theory. McKenna suggests that the body’s energy withdraws into a higher-dimensional space he calls hyperspace. He also clarifies that his Time Wave Zero theory does not align with traditional notions of randomness and chaos, which he sees as misunderstood. Instead, he views chaos as a super-order from which higher states of order emerge spontaneously.
Art Bell brings up a scientist’s experiment involving a random number generator, which users can influence with their minds to either clarify or obscure a picture. McKenna mentions a similar experiment on the Retro Psychokinesis site, where users influence numbers on a screen, even those generated in the past. This suggests that human intention can affect events retroactively, blurring the line between present and past actions.
McKenna concludes that cultural programming, rather than physical laws, might determine how we perceive and move through time. He hints that understanding shamanism and yoga could reveal more about these cultural constraints, which imprison us more than physical laws do.
A caller from California, Robert, asks Terence McKenna about dreaming and remote viewing. Robert mentions a scientific report suggesting some people do not dream and questions McKenna about this in relation to DMT spikes. McKenna is not aware of studies claiming that 5% of people do not dream, but he acknowledges that some individuals do not respond to DMT, suggesting that dreaming might be a more recent development in human evolution. McKenna offers a balanced view, suggesting that those who do not dream may either lack this evolutionary trait or have evolved beyond the need for it.
Art Bell then references a previous guest, a Danish remote viewer, who could not see beyond the year 2012, linking this to Christian ideas of the rapture. McKenna responds that the idea of remote viewing aligns with his theories, and the inability to see beyond 2012 might be related to his concept of Time Wave Zero, where linear time ceases.
A caller asks Terence McKenna about the future of time travel, whether it will emerge from physics or from within human consciousness. McKenna explains that discussions about time travel have become more respectable in scientific literature over the past decade. He references Kurt Gödel’s 1948 paper, which proposed a theoretical time travel method involving a spinning cylinder the size of the solar system. McKenna believes that by 2012, advancements will bring time travel to perfection. He anticipates a convergence of physical and imaginative realms, leading to a migration into the human imagination, which will encompass time travel, space flight, and immortality.
Art Bell’s wife inquires about a rumor that Timothy Leary had hidden 25,000 hits of blue Sandoz LSD. McKenna humorously declines to reveal any secrets, suggesting he might issue a statement when the tombs on Cydonia are opened. A caller from San Francisco, Ryan, discusses the impact of psychedelic experiences on people’s thinking and questions why psychedelics remain illegal. McKenna responds that psychedelics promote deconditioning from cultural myths, which is why societies universally oppose them. He suggests that a total social transformation, possibly by 2012, would be required for psychedelics to become legal.
A caller discusses using isolation tanks with mushrooms, asking how to locate DMT. McKenna suggests that while DMT is naturally found in the brain, practical information can be found on the internet. Art Bell cautions against providing detailed instructions on air due to legal concerns. McKenna agrees, emphasizing that online resources are available for those interested.
Another caller from Wisconsin recalls a previous conversation with Art about the harm of psychedelics. The caller mentions Douglas Rushkoff, a writer, and McKenna acknowledges knowing him. The caller also appreciates McKenna’s video project “Alien Dreamtime,” which involved discussing the impact of psilocybin on human evolution at a rave in San Francisco.
A caller from Illinois asks about the difference between DMT and LSD. McKenna explains that LSD is a longer-lasting, psychoanalytic substance that often leads to reviewing past memories and personal insights. In contrast, DMT provides a brief but intense experience that transports users to an alien world, largely independent of their personal psychology. He emphasizes that DMT is less useful for psychoanalysis and more for exploring dramatic paranormal dimensions.
McKenna discusses the vastness of the universe, both on a macro and micro scale, and critiques ideologies for failing to capture the dynamic nature of reality. He reiterates his view that Western civilization poses a significant threat to the planet due to resource extraction, propaganda, and pollution. He warns that continuing current cultural practices could have dire consequences for the future.
McKenna expresses deep concern about environmental degradation, emphasizing the severity of making Earth unfit for future generations. He shares a humorous quote about LSD from Timothy Leary, which Leary denied ever saying. The quote highlights how people can have strong negative reactions to drugs they have never taken. McKenna agrees with the notion that the mind rests on a foundation of chemical machinery, but it is more than just a product of it.
Art Bell jokes about the possibility of Timothy Leary having had his stash of LSD launched into orbit with him, speculating about an “acid rain” event in 2012. A caller from British Columbia asks McKenna about a resonant experience he described in “True Hallucinations.” McKenna elaborates on the concept of resonance, explaining how it allows for action at a distance, like a cello and a piano resonating with each other across a room. He suggests that resonance is built into time, with specific moments acting as holograms of past times, influencing current events and trends.
McKenna discusses the potential for DMT to change the electron spin resonance in our brains, possibly enabling us to perceive other dimensions. He laments the repression of psychedelics, which has hindered scientific research into their mechanisms. Despite the potential for ordinary clinical studies to answer important questions, the illegality of psychedelics has made such research nearly impossible.
A caller mentions a physicist’s humorous description of time as “nature’s way of keeping everything from happening all at once,” which McKenna agrees with. The caller then shifts to discussing black holes and their role as ultimate recycling devices in the universe. McKenna suggests that just as there are gravitational wells, there might also be “novelty wells,” areas of high improbability that influence the probability landscape of the universe.
McKenna argues that time should be viewed as a topological surface with varying probabilities across different regions, akin to a landscape with valleys and slopes. He critiques the traditional Western scientific view of time as a smooth surface, proposing instead that time exhibits fractal patterns observable at different scales. He suggests that underlying these patterns is a holographic matrix, linking phenomena across space and time through a fundamental architecture.
The discussion touches on the “dark matter” mystery in cosmology, with McKenna positing that the missing matter might be explained by a cosmic law of aggregation toward novelty rather than just gravitational forces. He suggests that fractal and self-similar patterns, recently discovered in nature, are key to understanding time’s structure. McKenna describes time as a fractal structure operating under the same architectural constraints at different scales.
McKenna highlights the current disarray in the scientific community, with different fields not communicating effectively. He foresees a revolution in science as it grapples with complex questions about language, mind, and process, predicting that this will lead to a reformation of scientific methods.
A caller from St. Louis, Missouri, expresses admiration for McKenna and excitement about the potential evolutionary changes leading up to 2012. McKenna appreciates the caller’s enthusiasm and looks forward to the possibilities of human evolution.
A caller from St. Louis, Missouri, expresses his anticipation for the potential evolutionary changes leading up to 2012. Terence McKenna responds by discussing the possibility of concluding his personal journey before 2012, emphasizing his desire to contribute ideas to the community for further development and validation. He stresses the importance of collective adventure in generating, testing, and refining ideas rather than building dogma or founding a cult.
Another caller from Northern California asks about the next step in human evolution and its relation to psychoactive substances. McKenna believes the creativity of the late 20th century is heavily influenced by psychedelics and cultural exchange. He highlights the significant impact of psychedelics on various fields, including the internet, music, fashion, media, scientific research, and architecture, noting that this influence is often denied or unrecognized.
Art Bell discusses the potential emergence of artificial intelligences (AIs) within the internet, referencing Charles Ostman and Hans Moravec’s predictions. McKenna agrees that AIs could make rapid progress, far surpassing human capabilities, and suggests we may not be prepared for the profound changes they will bring.
As the interview concludes, Art Bell asks McKenna about his books and where people can find them. McKenna lists his works, including “Invisible Landscapes,” “Food of the Gods,” “Magic Mushroom Grower’s Guide,” “True Hallucinations,” and “Archaic Revival,” which are available from major publishers like Bantam and HarperCollins. McKenna provides his email address but cautions that responses may be brief due to the high volume of messages he receives.
Following Terence McKenna’s segment, Art Bell transitions to open lines, inviting listeners to call in with their reactions and thoughts. One caller from San Diego, Aubrey, shares an experience with hallucinogens that led him to contemplate the circular patterns of molecules, planets, and the universe. Art Bell responds by noting that 95% of the world’s honeybees have disappeared, prompting Aubrey to reflect further on his insights about circles and the interconnectedness of life.
Another caller from Illinois, Don, expresses strong disapproval of McKenna’s use of psychedelics, equating it to conjuring demonic forces. Art Bell disagrees, arguing that consuming psychedelics does not automatically involve invoking demonic entities. Don also dismisses the idea of a significant change occurring in 2012, to which Art responds by respecting Don’s religious views while highlighting the importance of tolerance and open-mindedness.
A caller from Fairbanks, Alaska, comments on the weather and mosquitoes in Alaska, and briefly discusses a previous show about pet food, mentioning that animal shelters in Fairbanks use animal remains for fuel. Art appreciates the caller’s contribution and prefers this method over more controversial disposal methods.
A caller from Tracy, California, Dave, asks Art Bell about the potential for discovering extraterrestrial life and whether recent NASA discoveries might indicate its existence. Art reassures Dave that the possibility of life on other planets remains a valid and exciting scientific pursuit. Dave speculates that the alignment with 2012 might reveal new knowledge or advancements, and Art humorously asks whether Terence McKenna or NASA is more likely to discover extraterrestrial life first. Dave believes both McKenna and NASA have significant roles but suggests NASA might know more than they disclose.
A frequent caller from California humorously engages with Art, identifying as a pagan and sharing a bit about pagan traditions and beliefs. They discuss the significance of lunar calendars and tree associations, with Art learning that his birth month is associated with the mighty oak.
A caller from Bonney Lake, Washington, John, references biblical teachings, emphasizing that every knee shall bow to Christ. He cautions against mysticism, warning it can open people to malevolent forces. Art acknowledges John’s perspective and expresses respect for his views, reiterating the importance of considering diverse opinions without feeling threatened.
A first-time caller from Tracy, California, discusses the possibility of extraterrestrial life, referencing recent NASA discoveries and expressing curiosity about life forms that could exist without sunlight, like those near volcanic vents in the ocean. The caller suggests that 2012 might bring significant revelations. Art Bell humorously asks whether Terence McKenna or NASA will discover extraterrestrial life first, to which the caller acknowledges both have important roles.
Another caller reflects on time travel, suggesting it might be possible through genetic memory, as evidenced by organ transplants potentially transferring some form of memory or cravings from donors to recipients. Art Bell considers this an interesting aspect of time travel through genetic code.
Mike from Glendale, California, emphasizes the importance of studying phenomena like Bible prophecy and remote viewing scientifically rather than speculatively. Art agrees, noting the need to remain open to possibilities beyond current scientific understanding while maintaining a critical approach.
Art Bell then announces the upcoming guest, Sean David Morton, and a special segment with “Victor,” who allegedly smuggled a video of an alien interrogation at Area 51. Art directs listeners to his website for a photograph related to the video and encourages them to tune in for the discussion.
A caller from Greenville, South Carolina, expresses concern about a previous caller labeling McKenna as a disciple of Satan. Art reassures the caller, clarifying that such labels are often misunderstandings or misinterpretations of differing beliefs and ideas.
A caller from South Carolina engages with Art Bell, expressing appreciation for his book “The Quickening.” The caller references Matthew 24, where Jesus Christ speaks of the beginning of sorrows, likening it to birth pangs that come closer together. Art acknowledges this interpretation and confirms his openness to exploring various perspectives. The caller then comments on the tone of voice used by another Christian caller, emphasizing that true Christian behavior does not align with militancy or hostility.
A man from Cape Girardeau, Missouri, shares his experience with hallucinogens, stating that his encounters were different from what others described and that he would never try them again due to the fear and distortion they caused. Art respects his decision, affirming that personal experiences shape individual choices.
Another caller, JJ, corrects a previous statement about no one knowing the date or hour of significant events, humorously pointing out that it doesn’t mention the year. JJ also offers a definition of paganism as a religion of tribal origin, which Art suggests might be too narrow.
Reed from Portland calls to discuss time travel, clarifying that Terence McKenna’s view is that time travelers will appear only once time travel becomes possible. Reed mentions McKenna’s idea that psychedelic experiences allow one to observe past and present from a hyperspace perspective, akin to viewing traffic from a helicopter, which is different from actual time travel.
Mitch, the “Magic Christian,” from Ventura, California, praises McKenna, likening him to prominent figures like Richard Hoagland and Stan Deyo. Mitch expresses admiration for McKenna’s insights and briefly mentions a humorous query about Art’s wife knowing about a stash of LSD, indicating the playful and engaged nature of the show’s audience.
A caller from Ventura, California, praises Terence McKenna, advocating for focusing on the love of Jesus and emphasizing that condemnation is unnecessary. He reflects on his experiences with psychedelics, suggesting that while these substances can be enlightening for well-grounded individuals, they are not suitable for everyone, particularly those who are fearful. Art Bell agrees, highlighting that substances themselves are not inherently evil but can be dangerous if misused.
Clint from Bismarck, North Dakota, brings up recent news about the military and expresses frustration with the notion that wrongdoing should be excused because “everyone does it.” He transitions to discussing time travel, pointing out the complexity of the concept. Art Bell and Clint debate the implications of time travel, with Clint speculating that if time travelers exist in the future, their presence should already be evident in our current time.
Phil from Oregon calls in to discuss the limitless possibilities of time travel, emphasizing the importance of keeping an open mind. He appreciates McKenna’s appearance on the show and plans to read McKenna’s books, such as “Food of the Gods” and “The Invisible Landscape.” Phil shares his positive experiences with LSD, noting that while it intensified his senses, it didn’t lead to significant enlightenment. He expresses interest in McKenna’s “Magic Mushroom Grower’s Guide” as a safer alternative to street-purchased substances.
Art Bell and Phil discuss the risks of purchasing drugs from unknown sources, agreeing that it’s essential to know what one is consuming to avoid potential dangers.
A caller expresses concern that many people supporting Terence McKenna on the show have taken or want to take psychedelics. Art Bell reassures the caller that opinions have been roughly balanced and highlights that McKenna’s ideas naturally resonate with those interested in psychedelics, given his association with Timothy Leary. The caller, who has never taken drugs, finds McKenna’s ideas enlightening and hopes that mind expansion can be achieved through other means as well. Art acknowledges that many guests have discussed achieving spiritual insights without psychedelics, emphasizing that McKenna’s perspective is just one of many.